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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
I just feel like Nicki's daughter is something the writers threw together for this season... It would have been nice to see her faults and downfalls explained given information we already had.
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(46 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 11:40 PM
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During season 1 when Bill found out about Nicki's debt and she thought he was going to throw her out, she mentioned a woman that she knew who had been left at a gas station "on the side of the road like an unwanted kitten". I had always wondered if that was her. I don't think we can assume Nicki left JJ just because her daughter was left with him. He may have thrown her out and she did not fight for her daughter and she considers that "leaving her there."
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Well-behaved women rarely make history.......... Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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(45 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 9:51 PM
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> > My theory is that Nicki had probably been
> complaining
> > to Roman for a while before getting unsealed to
> JJ.
> > What probably pushed Nicki over the edge was
> finding
> > out that she was pregnant.
>
> Why? That's what's expected in that culture. IMO she
> may actually already have been pregnant by Roman when
> he sealed her to JJ.
>
By Roman, you mean JJ, right?
I don't think that's likely because JJ gave Nicki the "creeps" so I doubt she had sex with him until after she was married and sealed to him. So I think that the pregnancy occurred after all of that was done.
Also, just because being pregnant is normal in that culture doesn't mean someone isn't going to freak out when they're in a situation that they don't like (the marriage) and that situation is made worse (the pregnancy). If Nicki was already asking her father to unseal them, finding out that she was pregnant may have made her more desperate because she was afraid that by having JJ's child the chances of her escaping would be even less likely. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and if Roman thought that Nicki was willing to do anything to get out of that situation, he might unseal her just to protect herself, the baby, and JJ.
But that's just my theory of the situation. It will be interesting to see if the writers ever decide to answer any of these questions or if we'll just be left with speculation.
--
Don't Panic.
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(44 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 9:29 PM
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> I didn't like the name they gave Nicki's
> daughter.
> > Cara Lynn sound too much like Carolyn, and it makes
>
> > it too confusing.
>
> LOL it is confusing... I thought it was Carol Lynn.
On HBO's synopsis they spell it Cara Lynn.
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(43 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 9:05 PM
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I didn't like the name they gave Nicki's daughter.
> Cara Lynn sound too much like Carolyn, and it makes
> it too confusing.
LOL it is confusing... I thought it was Carol Lynn.
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(42 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 8:52 PM
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gt; I think the writers did make this up this season; but
> by Barb's reaction ('you had a daughter?')
> which seemed to be said as though Barb knew she had a
> daughter but for some reason not any more; it seemed
> to me the writers are possibly making out that it was
> known Nicki had a daughter but perhaps she pretended
> to the family she died in infancy or at a young age?
I think Barb was totally surprised and shocked "You HAD (gave birth to) a daughter?
When Nicki said "I HAVE a daughter. She's here" she was saying it was possible to get her back now.
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(41 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 7:50 PM
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>Was anybody else going "Ewwww!" when Cara >Lynn took the cookie without washing her hands >after handling the frog?
Not one little bitt. lol That's a girl after my own heart.
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(40 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 3:02 PM
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> I didn't like the name they gave Nicki's daughter.
> Cara Lynn sound too much like Carolyn, and it makes
> it too confusing.
> If she was 7 when Nicki left, of course she would
> recognize her. I don't know why JJ would say she
> wouldnn't
We don't actually know how long Nicki was sealed to JJ. Just because her daughter is 14 doesn't mean she went directly from one marriage to another. She has only been married to Bill 7 years. I suspect her father unsealed them and told JJ to get the hell out (for reason yet unknown, really) quite a while before she met Bill.
Also, if this *did* happen it makes sense Nicki would have stayed unmarried, since there would be stigma associated with her having a failed marriage to begin with. Bill coming onto the compound later with Barb would not necessarily know the back story since he was kicked out as a teenager himself.
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She makes love just like a woman ... But she breaks just like a little girl.
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(39 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 2:38 PM
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> > #2 - Wanda and JJ are brother and sister.
So what?
Does this mean he's going to automatically give Wanda weekly updates on what all his wives and children are doing?
> Which
> > makes Niki and Wanda sister in laws.
Nicki and Bill are husband and wife, and actually live in the same house, but Bill had no idea who Nicki's boss was. He also didn't know she was on the pill.
Wanda knew about the marriage, and probably knew about the daughter, too. But why would she tell Bill or Joey about something that happened 7 years before Nicki married Bill? That's up to Nicki.
> Bill and
> Joey
> > are brothers, which makes Niki sister in laws.
> >
> > #3 - Lois is Wanda's aunt. Which makes her JJ's
> aunt
> > also. Which makes her Niki's aunt by marriage
> as
> > well as her mil. . .
> >
> > #4 - JJ is Bill and Joey's Cousin.
>
> I'm not entirely sure what this necessarily has to do
> with why people would know.
Exactly. Nicki shares what she wants to share. She was unsealed to JJ, and JJ was sent to Kansas. So probably only JJ's closest relatives and wives know who Caralyn's mother is. And depending on what Roman Grant wanted, it's possible that even they don't know.
> There are several secrets that are still
> kept in families.
True. You may THINK you know everything that goes on in your family, but there actually may have been adoptions, marriages, affairs, and divorces that went on before you were born, or even just while someone was at college or out of town, that you will never know about.
> Also, Bill didn't even know about
> his own sister being engaged (or was she actually
> married?) to a man that she didn't want to be with.
Marriages don't seem to be very public on the compound, and unsealings seem even more abrupt. Seems like much of what goes on in the women's lives is considered unimportant, and left unofficial.
> Joey was off playing football for a while, and Lois
> was wrapped up in her own grief over the loss of her
> daughter. Something like Nicki's pregnancy could
> very easily have been missed by the three of them,
> especially if it was being hidden by Roman.
Nicki was 15 years old. Roman Grant has several dozen daughters. I doubt her marriage to JJ was even a blip on their radar back then. Joey wasn't married to Wanda yet, either.
> > Jodean has spent time in Kansas WITH KELLY. ..
> .
>
> If Kelly married JJ after Nicki left the scene, than
> Caralynn would've just been seen as one of the other
> children. If the question of maternity was brought
> up by Jodean, it would be answered with "The mother
> left the family"
Yep. And there may have been some added incentives for JJ to keep quiet about it.
> > #6 - Niki had both of her sons in a hospital.
> Her
> > obg/gyn would have known/could tell about any
> > previous pregnancies/births. And it would have
> been
> > entered on the present B/C how many previous
> births
> > (alive or still born) there had been.
Not necessarily. Women who have given kids up for adoption do not have to have that put on their kid's birth certificate. While the obgyn can tell if the mother is lying, they do not have to force the issue.
> > And the ages don't match up.
> > She was married at 15, her daughter is 14 almost
> 15,
> > , that makes her 30 (OK. . that's about right)
Yes, it is.
> > Raymond is 6. . .she has been married to Bill
> and
> > Barb for 7 years.
Yes, she was married to them for 1 year before Wayne was born. (Wayne is 6. Raymond is 4.)
> Let's say she came
> back to
> > the compound the year previous.
Why?
> That would have
> made
> > her daughter 5. . .Are they saying that a 5 year
> old
> > would have forgotten her mother completely?
Not at all. I doubt Nicki waited that long to get unsealed. Probably she got unsealed after a year or two.
> My theory is that Nicki had probably been complaining
> to Roman for a while before getting unsealed to JJ.
> What probably pushed Nicki over the edge was finding
> out that she was pregnant.
Why? That's what's expected in that culture. IMO she may actually already have been pregnant by Roman when he sealed her to JJ.
> Nicki follows orders, and after giving
> birth is sent to that place she wanted to send
> Rhonda.
Agreed. And then she goes to town, (NOT the compound,) with Wanda, who's chasing Joey. Joey and Wanda get married and Nicki sets her cap for Bill, and moves in to take care of Barb.
> But until we get more information from the writers,
> we can't really say whether or not Nicki stayed with
> JJ until her daughter was just born or five years
> old.
I doubt she stayed with him any longer than she had to. And probably she wasn't bonded with her infant, because of JJ's other wives.
--
?Guns don't kill people, people kill people, and monkeys do too (if they have a gun).?
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(38 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 1:10 PM
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I really do like this storyline! I think there are so many ways the writers can take this, and I can't wait to see what they do.
I think it also gives Nicki a real reason to want to straighten up and make it work between her, Barb, Bill, and Margene.
> I'm not finding hard to believe that Niki had a
> daughter. . .I am finding it hard to believe that no
> one knew about her.
>
> #1 - Niki and Wanda are close friends. Were since
> girlhood? And Wanda never said anything?
Wanda apparently never said anything about JJ until this season either. Wanda could just be a really good friend to Nicki, and knows that bringing it up will only cause more pain and hurt than any good. I really don't think that's all that unlikely.
It's not like friends of someone who has given a baby up for adoption talks about it all of the time. You normally wait until the person wants to talk about it.
> #2 - Wanda and JJ are brother and sister. Which
> makes Niki and Wanda sister in laws. Bill and Joey
> are brothers, which makes Niki sister in laws.
>
> #3 - Lois is Wanda's aunt. Which makes her JJ's aunt
> also. Which makes her Niki's aunt by marriage as
> well as her mil. . .
>
> #4 - JJ is Bill and Joey's Cousin.
I'm not entirely sure what this necessarily has to do with why people would know.
Don't forget also, that on the compound just because you're cousins with someone doesn't mean you are biologically related. And even if they are all related, it doesn't mean they know everyone's business. There are several secrets that are still kept in families. Also, Bill didn't even know about his own sister being engaged (or was she actually married?) to a man that she didn't want to be with. Joey was off playing football for a while, and Lois was wrapped up in her own grief over the loss of her daughter. Something like Nicki's pregnancy could very easily have been missed by the three of them, especially if it was being hidden by Roman.
> #5 - Jodean and Kathy are sisters and they have a
> younger sister named Kelly. Kelly is married to JJ.
> Jodean has spent time in Kansas WITH KELLY. . .
If Kelly married JJ after Nicki left the scene, than Caralynn would've just been seen as one of the other children. If the question of maternity was brought up by Jodean, it would be answered with "The mother left the family" and would probably be dropped. JJ probably wouldn't want to announce who the mother was because a) Roman would find out and probably be pissed and b) being unsealed to the prophet's daughter probably doesn't help your status within the community.
> #6 - Niki had both of her sons in a hospital. Her
> obg/gyn would have known/could tell about any
> previous pregnancies/births. And it would have been
> entered on the present B/C how many previous births
> (alive or still born) there had been.
Do you mean birth certificate when you say "B/C"? And does that really happen?
> And the ages don't match up.
> She was married at 15, her daughter is 14 almost 15,
> , that makes her 30 (OK. . that's about right) but
> Raymond is 6. . .she has been married to Bill and
> Barb for 7 years. She took care of Barb for 1 year
> before she married them. Let's say she came back to
> the compound the year previous. That would have made
> her daughter 5. . .Are they saying that a 5 year old
> would have forgotten her mother completely?
They've never said how long Nicki had been unsealed from JJ before meeting Bill.
My theory is that Nicki had probably been complaining to Roman for a while before getting unsealed to JJ. What probably pushed Nicki over the edge was finding out that she was pregnant. Roman might've feared what Nicki would do to the baby if she were forced to stay in the marriage, so he offers Nicki a deal: give birth to the baby, hand it over to JJ, and then be unsealed. Nicki follows orders, and after giving birth is sent to that place she wanted to send Rhonda. After everybody at the compound has moved on, Nicki is brought back, lives in the Big House for a while, and finally Bill enters the picture.
But until we get more information from the writers, we can't really say whether or not Nicki stayed with JJ until her daughter was just born or five years old.
> And Barb had no idea that she had a daughter, but
> Bill didn't look that surprised. . .
My theory on that, is that Barb phoned Bill ahead of time to warn him (how else would he have known to have two extra cups of water ready?), or Bill thought it was one of Nicki's friends from the compound.
I think all of your points are valid, I guess I just filled in the gaps my own way!
--
Don't Panic.
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(37 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 11:41 AM
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This might be way out there but I had the notion that the introduction of the Carolyn charachter (is it really spelled Cara Lynn?) was a nod to Carolyn Jessop who has worked on the show as a costume designer. The woman from "Escape" who wanted to be a doctor before she was forced into a marriage to Merrill Jessop at 14 or 15. She even slightly looks like her. May just be the hair.
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(36 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 11:37 AM
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I kept thinking, why would Roman have unsealed Nicki? Yes, physical abuse would explain it, and explain why Nicki had a panic attack at being cornered, but it seemed too ordinary. (Sad to say!)
But JJ and Alby...
--
Oliver Wendell Holmes:
"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
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(35 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 11:20 AM
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Mari
Thinking more about this - there was something about the exchange btw JJ and Alby that seemed to go beyond Nicki. Alby's interest in sending JJ away is better explained if he himself had a relationship with him, than for the way he may or may not have treated Nicki.
I like this suggested interpretation of the story line with JJ and Alby as likely lovers to the possible "Nikki is more simpathetic now" element that I fear will be incorporated into the script.
A
--
Cake or Death?
Um...cake.
Well - we're all out of cake- we only had three bits and we didn't expect such a rush!
-----Eddie Izzard
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Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 11:12 AM
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> > > He whispered "You and I both know why you
> want
> > me
> > > gone. What kind of coward are you?"
> > > Then he looked straight at Alby. There's
> more to
> > this
> > > story than meets the eye.
> >
> Ooh, there's a possibility! I think there's more to
> the Nicki/JJ story than we've been told. Suppose she
> caught JJ with ALBY??!! That would explain so much -
> why the family knows about Alby, even if the rest of
> the compound doesn't, and why Roman would unseal her
> from JJ. Imagine - JJ having an affair with his
> wife's BROTHER - such a twist on the usual infidelity
> story!
Edit: Thinking more about this - there was something about the exchange btw JJ and Alby that seemed to go beyond Nicki. Alby's interest in sending JJ away is better explained if he himself had a relationship with him, than for the way he may or may not have treated Nicki.
I like this idea, if I do say so myself! 
>
> --
> Oliver Wendell Holmes:
>
> "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose
> begins."
--
Oliver Wendell Holmes:
"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
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(33 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 8:56 AM
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I didn't like the name they gave Nicki's daughter. Cara Lynn sound too much like Carolyn, and it makes it too confusing.
If she was 7 when Nicki left, of course she would recognize her. I don't know why JJ would say she wouldnn't
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(32 of 91)
Re: Am I the only one who doesn't like the Nicki's daughter plot?
Mar 24, 2009 8:52 AM
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> > He whispered "You and I both know why you want
> me
> > gone. What kind of coward are you?"
> > Then he looked straight at Alby. There's more to
> this
> > story than meets the eye.
>
Ooh, there's a possibility! I think there's more to the Nicki/JJ story than we've been told. Suppose she caught JJ with ALBY??!! That would explain so much - why the family knows about Alby, even if the rest of the compound doesn't, and why Roman would unseal her from JJ. Imagine - JJ having an affair with his wife's BROTHER - such a twist on the usual infidelity story!
--
Oliver Wendell Holmes:
"Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins."
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