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Here's the chronology of polygamy in Mormonism. Hope it makes sense.
1829 - The Book of Mormon considered sacred scripture is published containing verses specifically condemning polygamy.
Jacob 2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
1831 - Joseph Smith receives a revelation that in spite of what the Book of Mormon says he needs to practice polygamy (Intro to Doctrine and Covenants 132)
1833 - God evidently changes his mind again when in a revelation to Joseph Smith he says, polygamy is wrong. "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." -D&C 101:4
About this same time, Joseph Smith hooks up with Fanny Alger
1836 - Joseph Smith receives the sealing keys of the priesthood from Elijah begging the question why or how he married Fanny Alger without them
1838 - An angel with a sword appears to Joseph Smith telling him to get cracking on polygamy or he will lose his position and his life! Joseph Smith obeys going on a marriagepalooza, taking another 31 wives in 5 years, including 11 who were already married.
1843 - D&C 132 is recorded. Not only is polygamy a commandment but it's eternal and will allow Mormons to become Gods! Woohoo! Joseph Smith shows his gratitude by claiming he's never practiced it.
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclemation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives....This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man does not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this....What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjerurs"-Joseph Smith (History of The Church 6:410-411)
There's much more but this is a good start
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(6 of 6)
Re: God's erratic nature when it comes to Mormon polygamy
Nov 6, 2009 1:16 AM
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Jacob 2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
I am reading this verse completely differently then you are. I should point out that I'm LDS. "One" in the LDS faith to me means more then just a singular commitment of two people. We believe that God is "One." But we believe that God is Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, separate beings, but "one" in purpose is the way I read that verse. So I read it like this:
Try this:
"For there shall not any man among you have save it be one (in purpose) wife (could be more then one); and concubines (not married to) he shall have none;" (just my opinion)
Though honestly I think this is the first time I've read this verse. And let's face it many prophets in the bible also practiced polygamy and some even "lied, murdered, etc." I guess we are all human. God only has the imperfect to work with. But I sure don't like the judgmental religious people in my faith as an LDS or, Baptists, Catholics etc. thinking they are better then another. I frankly like the flawed prophet "Joseph Smith" more then the "perfect" (not realistic) one. I also like the idea of a loving God who cares about us each deeply. Okay, I know, enough said...
Please post references on the scriptures original print so that I know it's valid. Is it in the LDS history library in SLC? Quinn? Where did it come from?
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(5 of 6)
Re: God's erratic nature when it comes to Mormon polygamy
Oct 17, 2009 8:28 PM
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I think you must be referring to John C Bennett not William Law. Here is a little background that leads up to you second point.
Bennett's problems began in earnest in June 1841 when Hyrum Smith and William Law confirmed that Bennett, who had been presenting himself as an eligible bachelor, already had a wife and children back in Ohio. When confronted, Bennett admitted the truth of his situation and subsequently tried unsuccessfully to commit suicide. The circumstances surrounding Bennett's moral turpitude in Nauvoo seem to have been the doctrine of plural marriage, which he tried to pervert. Bennett took advantage of his profession as a gynecologist, sought to have illicit relationships with women, and told them they were married to him spiritually and that the Prophet approved this (he later admitted such was a lie).
According to author Richard Lyman Bushman., who wrote ?Joseph Smith Rough Stone Rolling, He explains that to safeguard his secret, Joseph publicly and repeatedly denied he was advocating polygamy. In his mind he wasn?t. He distinguished between authorized celestial marriage and the illegal practice of bigamy or the radical ideology of spiritual wives. By denying his involvement, Joseph was trying to wall off John C Bennett?s lascivious schemes for enticing women into illicit relations from the carefully regulated performance of priesthood marriages. He taught his complicated religious version privately to trusted individuals and small groups. The message was always the same. This is a revelation from God to your prophet. Seek your own inspiration and you will know for yourself.
So yes, I guess Smith lied but considering the circumstances, he did not have a choice.
Now do you suggest that his lies make him a false prophet? Consider Moses, He was God?s prophet who led the Hebrews out of Egypt and performed mighty miracles but he also murdered an Egyptian and buried the body in the sand. Why would God call a murderer to be his prophet? Isn?t murder a terrible sin in God?s eyes. God judges the heart and what you or I may consider a sinner, God considers a chosen vessel.
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(4 of 6)
Re: God's erratic nature when it comes to Mormon polygamy
Oct 12, 2009 5:47 PM
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Ok Zoar, some key counterpoints:
1. Look at Section 101:4 of the 1835 Book of Commandments. It cleary says "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again."
The church conviently removed this in 1876 replacing it with Section 132.
2. I've read the statement in its full context. You only cited a portion and didn't point out the person charging him (William Law). Furthermore, explain this statement he gives later: "What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjurers." In full context, Joseph is claiming to have never in the 14 years he was married to Emma ever practicing it. How is this not clearly a lie?
3. Ok, assuming Orihah practiced it. Was he commanded by God to do so? The first polygamy mentioned in the Bible was Lamech a descendant of Cain. Using this as a means of justification for Joseph is absurd when like I said Section 101:4 of the Book of Commandments (the most recent revelation at that time) clearly forbade it. Furthermore, why did God command it of Joseph and why did Joseph marry 11 women who already had living husbands? Why would God contradict himself since it was always illegal (that's why Joseph Smith uses the term crime) and clearly contradicted the 12th article of faith.
I can't wait to hear your counter arguments...
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(3 of 6)
Re: God's erratic nature when it comes to Mormon polygamy
Sep 1, 2009 11:36 PM
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AmIWhiteYET,
?1833 - God evidently changes his mind again when in a revelation to Joseph Smith he says, polygamy is wrong. "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." -D&C 101:4?
Is that the Non-Mormon Version of the D&C because here is the official one. In fact here are the first three verses before it
1 VERILY I say unto you, concerning your brethren who have been afflicted, and persecuted, and cast out from the land of their inheritance--
2 I, the Lord, have suffered the affliction to come upon them, wherewith they have been afflicted, in consequence of their transgressions;
3 Yet I will own them, and they shall be mine in that day when I shall come to make up my jewels.
4 Therefore, they must needs be chastened and tried, even as Abraham, who was commanded to offer up his only son.
D&C101:1-4
Moving on
?I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclemation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives...?
Who was Joseph referring to when he said this? You need to go back and read that section in its full context.
?Jacob 2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;?
Why is it when people who quote this BOM passage, always seem to leave out the most import part? Which is this verse
For if I will, saith the Lord of Hosts, raise up seed unto me, I will COMMAND my people; otherwise they shall HEARKEN unto these things. Jacob 2:30
Here is another interesting passage in the BOM I want you to pay close attention too
And again, I know that the things whereof he hath testified are true; for behold I say unto you, that as the Lord liveth, even so has he sent his angel to make these things manifest unto me; and this he has done while this Alma hath dwelt at my house.
For behold, he hath blessed mine house, he hath blessed me, and my WOMEN, and my CHILDREN, and my father and my kinsfolk; yea, even all my kindred hath he blessed, and the blessing of the Lord hath rested upon us according to the words which he spake. Alma10:10-11
Seems to me that GOD had commanded his people to practice plural marriage at this particular place in time which in BOM chronology is about 82 BC. The passage in Jacob takes place Between 544 and 441 BC
Now lets go back thousands of years before this
?AND it came to pass that Orihah did execute judgment upon the land in righteousness all his days, whose days were exceedingly many.
And he begat sons and daughters; yea, he begat thirty and one, among whom were twenty and three sons.?
Ether7:1-2
That?s quite a lot of children just coming from one wife don't you think. Now picture this: 10 wives each have 3 children that makes 30 children Oh I forgot he had 31 so one of the wives must have had four. Of course I could go through different combinations but it is obvious there is a polygamous relationship going on here. If not I pity his wife who had to pump out 31 children for him all by herself.
And God can revoke: D&C Official Declaration 1 AKA the 1890 Manifesto.
?There's much more but this is a good start?
LOL! You call that a good start!
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(2 of 6)
Re: God's erratic nature when it comes to Mormon polygamy
Sep 1, 2009 9:36 PM
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The problem with the early LDS church was that doctrine required marriage to get to the highest part of heaven and baptism by a priesthood holder of a certain type.
Two problems. What happened to loved ones who died and what happened to those who died before getting married? To solve this baptism for the dead for family members who passed before hearing of the book of mormon and with so many female converts there weren't enough male spouses for them all. Also with all their forced travelling women who had been widowed needed protection also so some took on more wives to afford them that protection. The idea that babies didn't need baptism appealed to many female converts as mortality rates were high in the nineteenth century.
As the church had a base in UT and people weren't travelling and with birth rates being even, polygamy wasn't necessary. And it granted them statehood. A widowed convert could have her husband baptised and their marriage sealed in the temple after death so the threat of not getting into the better part of heaven wasn't as big an issue.
Perhaps it was a calling for a brief time to build up the numbers of Saints to give the religion a good start?
They just changed the rules to reflect the time. Revelation is a way to let that happen. At one time men who were married could be ordained as Catholic priests so long as they didn't remarry should they loose their spouse; then they required men to be single and remain celebate. At one time a woman couldn't read from the Torah.
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God's erratic nature when it comes to Mormon polygamy
Aug 26, 2009 1:33 PM
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Here's the chronology of polygamy in Mormonism. Hope it makes sense.
1829 - The Book of Mormon considered sacred scripture is published containing verses specifically condemning polygamy.
Jacob 2:27 Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none;
1831 - Joseph Smith receives a revelation that in spite of what the Book of Mormon says he needs to practice polygamy (Intro to Doctrine and Covenants 132)
1833 - God evidently changes his mind again when in a revelation to Joseph Smith he says, polygamy is wrong. "Inasmuch as this Church of Christ has been reproached with the crime of fornication and polygamy, we declare that we believe that one man should have one wife, and one woman but one husband, except in the case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." -D&C 101:4
About this same time, Joseph Smith hooks up with Fanny Alger
1836 - Joseph Smith receives the sealing keys of the priesthood from Elijah begging the question why or how he married Fanny Alger without them
1838 - An angel with a sword appears to Joseph Smith telling him to get cracking on polygamy or he will lose his position and his life! Joseph Smith obeys going on a marriagepalooza, taking another 31 wives in 5 years, including 11 who were already married.
1843 - D&C 132 is recorded. Not only is polygamy a commandment but it's eternal and will allow Mormons to become Gods! Woohoo! Joseph Smith shows his gratitude by claiming he's never practiced it.
"I had not been married scarcely five minutes, and made one proclemation of the Gospel, before it was reported that I had seven wives....This spiritual wifeism! Why, a man does not speak or wink, for fear of being accused of this....What a thing it is for a man to be accused of committing adultery, and having seven wives, when I can only find one. I am the same man, and as innocent as I was fourteen years ago; and I can prove them all perjerurs"-Joseph Smith (History of The Church 6:410-411)
There's much more but this is a good start
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