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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
So, I've just finished Escape, and consider me an idealist or whatever, I'd love to know what I can do to help woman in situations like Carolyn Jessop's escape... does anyone have any idea what you or me can do to help? Clothes, money, books, shelter, etc?
Ideas? Is there an organization? (A quick Google search left me empty handed but that doesn't mean I didn't have the wrong search terms)
--
~Blissie
Margie: I am a terrible wife. I should've never married your father. And your mother.
Sarah: And Nicki.
Margie: Especially Nicki.
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(17 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 28, 2008 11:22 AM
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try narrowing the search on google, perhaps start with the web site for Escape
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(16 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 28, 2008 11:20 AM
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Etherealbliss,
Here's a link I found thru United Way- that helps those who in poly situations who need things such as clothing etc.
Interesting article, about E. Wall's sister and her situation, worth looking into, if you get a chance
childbrides.org thru United Way
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duets
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Edited by duets at 02/28/2008 8:22 AM
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(15 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 27, 2008 9:19 AM
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> There are hundreds of women who are that "unselfish,"
> but it's actually pretty selfish to put your life at
> risk when you have children to raise.
Not to mention that men who abuse their wives usually abuse their children as well. I know women who put up with a lot themselves, but the first time their husbands laid a hand on their kids, they left.
>
> We tell women it's selfish to go into the army or be
> a cop, when they have small children. We exempt
> women from combat based on the idea that women become
> mothers, and having your mother die is a Bad Thing.
> But an abusive marriage is far more likely to kill
> l you than combat.
Well said! (As usual.)
--
----------------------------
Click here to see what's new in "Marion's New York," newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
http://www.marionsnewyork.com
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(14 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 27, 2008 2:14 AM
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gamesinprogress,
> > > So, what I am saying is I feel that a woman
> is trying to make two wrongs make a right by breaking
> the marriage vows as a way to selfishly save
> her own neck
You think it's selfish for her to want to be healthy and alive and able to take care of her kids? Even if he doesn't actually manage to kill her, a lot of men put their wives in the hospital a lot, which makes it a LOT harder to take care of the kids!
It's bad for kids to see their mother abused, humiliated, and injured by their father. It gives them a bad idea of what love is, what men and women are. It ruins the girls' self-esteem and can turn the boys into violent criminals.
> I know that there are very few
> people in western culture who have that
> level of unselfishness, but it is what is right in
There are hundreds of women who are that "unselfish," but it's actually pretty selfish to put your life at risk when you have children to raise.
We tell women it's selfish to go into the army or be a cop, when they have small children. We exempt women from combat based on the idea that women become mothers, and having your mother die is a Bad Thing. But an abusive marriage is far more likely to kill you than combat.
--
"And, finally, New Rule: If America's richest one-percent are now so rich that even a five-star hotel isn't good enough, it's time to bring back the guillotine."
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(13 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 9:59 PM
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> > Well, the logical answer would be that the
> children's
> > abuse would take time of their future stay in
> > purgatory as well. We all have trials and
> > tribulations, but running from your problems
> instead
> > of attempting to solve them does not seem to be
> the
> > most amirable course of action. Again, two
> wrongs
> > don't make a right. As Christians, I feel we
> are
> > limited in our options to things that are not
> sinful
> > to get ourselves out of bad situations. Look
> at
> > Joab.
>
> Games, you are making a number of assumptions about
> the people on these boards.
>
> Not all of us are Christians; some are atheists or
> pagans. Those of us who are Christians do not
> necessarily agree with your view of God as harsh and
> rigid.
>
> You are obviously entitled to your opinions and
> beliefs, but you state a lot of them as if they were
> obvious, irrefutable facts, and quote the Bible as if
> it is also absolute and undeniable. Many here do not
> agree with you.
>
> --
> ----------------------------
> Click here to see what's new in "Marion's New York,"
> newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
> http://www.marionsnewyork.com
I would also venture to say that exposure to the type of Christianity that GIP professes is what turns many away from Christianity. I personally believe that far too many people leave marriages that could be saved. The paradox is that there are also many who stay in marriages that are destructive to all involved.
While you are entitled to your opinion, Games, I think you are wrong in many ways.
--
I can be changed by what happens to me,
But I refuse to be reduced by it.
Maya Angelou
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(12 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 7:34 PM
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> Well, the logical answer would be that the children's
> abuse would take time of their future stay in
> purgatory as well. We all have trials and
> tribulations, but running from your problems instead
> of attempting to solve them does not seem to be the
> most amirable course of action. Again, two wrongs
> don't make a right. As Christians, I feel we are
> limited in our options to things that are not sinful
> to get ourselves out of bad situations. Look at
> Joab.
Games, you are making a number of assumptions about the people on these boards.
Not all of us are Christians; some are atheists or pagans. Those of us who are Christians do not necessarily agree with your view of God as harsh and rigid.
You are obviously entitled to your opinions and beliefs, but you state a lot of them as if they were obvious, irrefutable facts, and quote the Bible as if it is also absolute and undeniable. Many here do not agree with you.
--
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Click here to see what's new in "Marion's New York," newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
http://www.marionsnewyork.com
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(11 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 7:27 PM
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> > > Games, do you believe a woman should stay
> with a
> > man
> > > who abuses her? She may end up dead -
> these
> > things
> > > progress.
> > >
> > > --
> > > ----------------------------
> > > Click here to see what's new in "Marion's
> New
> > York,"
> > > newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
> > > http://www.marionsnewyork.com
> >
> > Well, it had to happen sometime. You posed a
> > question to me where my beliefs will surely
> ruffle
> > everyones feathers here on some level.
> >
> > As a Catholic, I believe that people go to
> either
> > hell, heaven, or purgatory then heaven.
> >
> > Only those worthy of sainthood go straight to
> heaven.
> > Those who will eventually go to heaven but must
> > t first be punished by God for their sins must
> go to
> > purgatory first. And then, of course, everyone
> else
> > goes to hell.
> >
> > It is believed that any pain, suffering,
> poverty,
> > hardluck or any other uncomfortable thing you
> endure
> > on earth will reduce the time you spend in
> > purgatory.
> >
> > There are many stories written about early
> > Christianity where people are captured and
> tortured
> > and killed. Those who die a martyr go straight
> to
> > heaven because of such unselfishness shown
> toward
> > doing what is right in God's eyes.
> >
> > So, what I am saying is I feel that a woman is
> trying
> > to make two wrongs make a right by breaking the
> > marriage vows as a way to selfishly save her own
> neck
> > under the yoke of a tyranical husband. It does
> > nothing to help the man if the woman also puts
> > herself into a state of sin. Better she be a
> good
> > doting wife because her soul is ensured to go
> to
> > heaven because of her adhearance to God's will
> over
> > her own. And attempt to save the one she loves
> > through example. I know that there are very
> few
> > people in western culture who have that level
> of
> > unselfishness, but it is what is right in my
> opinion.
> >
> > --
> > Edited by gamesinprogress at 02/26/2008 11:24
> AM
>
> How about leaving to protect her children? Is that
> permitted, in your opinion? Or should she also
> sacrifice her children and, since abuse tends to
> continue through generations, her childrens's
> children also?
>
Well, the logical answer would be that the children's abuse would take time of their future stay in purgatory as well. We all have trials and tribulations, but running from your problems instead of attempting to solve them does not seem to be the most amirable course of action. Again, two wrongs don't make a right. As Christians, I feel we are limited in our options to things that are not sinful to get ourselves out of bad situations. Look at Joab.
> --
> I can be changed by what happens to me,
> But I refuse to be reduced by it.
> Maya Angelou
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(10 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 6:20 PM
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> > Games, do you believe a woman should stay with a
> man
> > who abuses her? She may end up dead - these
> things
> > progress.
> >
> > --
> > ----------------------------
> > Click here to see what's new in "Marion's New
> York,"
> > newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
> > http://www.marionsnewyork.com
>
> Well, it had to happen sometime. You posed a
> question to me where my beliefs will surely ruffle
> everyones feathers here on some level.
>
> As a Catholic, I believe that people go to either
> hell, heaven, or purgatory then heaven.
>
> Only those worthy of sainthood go straight to heaven.
> Those who will eventually go to heaven but must
> t first be punished by God for their sins must go to
> purgatory first. And then, of course, everyone else
> goes to hell.
>
> It is believed that any pain, suffering, poverty,
> hardluck or any other uncomfortable thing you endure
> on earth will reduce the time you spend in
> purgatory.
>
> There are many stories written about early
> Christianity where people are captured and tortured
> and killed. Those who die a martyr go straight to
> heaven because of such unselfishness shown toward
> doing what is right in God's eyes.
>
> So, what I am saying is I feel that a woman is trying
> to make two wrongs make a right by breaking the
> marriage vows as a way to selfishly save her own neck
> under the yoke of a tyranical husband. It does
> nothing to help the man if the woman also puts
> herself into a state of sin. Better she be a good
> doting wife because her soul is ensured to go to
> heaven because of her adhearance to God's will over
> her own. And attempt to save the one she loves
> through example. I know that there are very few
> people in western culture who have that level of
> unselfishness, but it is what is right in my opinion.
>
> --
> Edited by gamesinprogress at 02/26/2008 11:24 AM
How about leaving to protect her children? Is that permitted, in your opinion? Or should she also sacrifice her children and, since abuse tends to continue through generations, her childrens's children also?
--
I can be changed by what happens to me,
But I refuse to be reduced by it.
Maya Angelou
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540
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(9 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 2:22 PM
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> Games, do you believe a woman should stay with a man
> who abuses her? She may end up dead - these things
> progress.
>
> --
> ----------------------------
> Click here to see what's new in "Marion's New York,"
> newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
> http://www.marionsnewyork.com
Well, it had to happen sometime. You posed a question to me where my beliefs will surely ruffle everyones feathers here on some level.
As a Catholic, I believe that people go to either hell, heaven, or purgatory then heaven.
Only those worthy of sainthood go straight to heaven. Those who will eventually go to heaven but must first be punished by God for their sins must go to purgatory first. And then, of course, everyone else goes to hell.
It is believed that any pain, suffering, poverty, hardluck or any other uncomfortable thing you endure on earth will reduce the time you spend in purgatory.
There are many stories written about early Christianity where people are captured and tortured and killed. Those who die a martyr go straight to heaven because of such unselfishness shown toward doing what is right in God's eyes.
So, what I am saying is I feel that a woman is trying to make two wrongs make a right by breaking the marriage vows as a way to selfishly save her own neck under the yoke of a tyranical husband. It does nothing to help the man if the woman also puts herself into a state of sin. Better she be a good doting wife because her soul is ensured to go to heaven because of her adhearance to God's will over her own. And attempt to save the one she loves through example. I know that there are very few people in western culture who have that level of unselfishness, but it is what is right in my opinion.
--
Edited by gamesinprogress at 02/26/2008 11:24 AM
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(8 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 2:09 PM
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No, I certainly would never want to tear a loving and happy family apart, however a woman in the situation that Carolyn was in, where she feared for the safety and future of her children and she was leaving her husband and life behind with extremely little - clothing, medication, etc. If help can be given, then I'd like to know where,
Thanks for the link Way.
--
~Blissie
Margie: I am a terrible wife. I should've never married your father. And your mother.
Sarah: And Nicki.
Margie: Especially Nicki.
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(7 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 2:00 PM
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Games, do you believe a woman should stay with a man who abuses her? She may end up dead - these things progress.
--
----------------------------
Click here to see what's new in "Marion's New York," newly updated Feb. 17, 2008.
http://www.marionsnewyork.com
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(6 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 1:56 PM
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> gamesinprogress,
>
> I don't think anyone [even the poster who began this
> thread] is advocating the big "D".
>
Sorry, I took it to mean where some nosy people plan an "intervention" or some similarly kind sounding plot to remove a man's wives and/or children from so called cults.
> Instead, they are asking what can be done for those
> who decide to leave this existence.
>
Well, if leaving that existence in any way entails wives leaving their husbands or children defying their parents and running away; then I cannot condone such "assistance".
> It is (or has been well documented) that many choose
> to leave the polygamous compounds for various
> reasons. Ever heard of "the lost boys"?
I have. Bill is sort of a lost boy, if I am not mistaken. However, "lost boys" don't need to be rescued from the compounds, they were kicked out. (which I disagree with that tactic). If you want to find ways to help the lost boys, then go ahead. I have no problem with that. I encourage such an act of help.
>
> I know that these folks- while leaving, many times
> only leave with the clothes on their backs and
> certainly need the assistance of those who are able
> to give things such as clothing, jobs, food etc in
> order to survive........
>
> I think you may have taken this the wrong way?
> Helping others is not a crime; but rather a
> a charitable act.
>
If that help does not break up families, then I am with you all the way.
> --
> duets
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833
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(5 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 1:41 PM
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gamesinprogress,
I don't think anyone [even the poster who began this thread] is advocating the big "D".
Instead, they are asking what can be done (help) for those who decide to leave the fundamental or compound setting.
It is (or has been well documented) that many choose to leave the polygamous compounds for various reasons. Ever heard of "the lost boys"?
I know that these folks- while leaving, many times only leave with the clothes on their backs and certainly need the assistance of those who are able to give things such as clothing, jobs, food etc in order to survive........
I think you may have taken this the wrong way? Helping others is not a crime; but rather a charitable act.
--
duets
--
Edited by duets at 02/26/2008 10:49 AM
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(4 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 26, 2008 1:30 PM
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Call me crazy, but helping women to divorce their husbands does not seem a very Godly thing to engage in.
I vote, stay out of other peoples business.
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(3 of 17)
Re: What can someone do to help escapees from FLDS
Feb 23, 2008 8:45 AM
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Etherealbliss,
That's some good advice that Withay gave to you about the sending $$$$/to whom? [Careful]
There are some legitimate shelters etc in the works. A while back I looked into this. I believe I found out more by going to the webs of the newspapers, Salt Lake City Tribune or Deseret News in the classified sections. There, I found info on sending clothes & needed items etc.
Once again, good luck.
Here's one that I found:
Cult Help in Utah
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Edited by duets at 02/23/2008 5:49 AM
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