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This is one for zoar. I'm told anybody can get a revelation, at any time, about anything.
What do you do about a child who says God revealed that he doesn't have to go to bed until 11? Or a woman who says God has revealed to her that polyandry is the new holy path? Or someone who says he's had it revealed to him that he should take his wives and go live outside the compound?
What if someone's revelations contradict those of the prophet, or those in the Bible or BOM?
How do you decide what takes priority?
--
"And, finally, New Rule: If America's richest one-percent are now so rich that even a five-star hotel isn't good enough, it's time to bring back the guillotine."
--
Edited by titannia at 05/12/2008 5:15 AM PDT
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(19 of 19)
May 17, 2008 12:25 AM
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> > mar,
> >
> > As to Warren Jeffs admitting he was not the
> prophet,
> > that surprised me. From an LDS stand point he
> would
> > be correct, but I dont know how his followers
> would
> > take it.
Well, they refuse to believe him. It's weird. He has said, "I am not the prophet." But the last I heard, people on the compound were saying "He is still our prophet." Go figure.
--
"And, finally, New Rule: If America's richest one-percent are now so rich that even a five-star hotel isn't good enough, it's time to bring back the guillotine."
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(18 of 19)
May 16, 2008 11:17 PM
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&
>
> So, zoar, is there a 'next senior apostle"? Someone
> who could step in for Warren Jeffs?
mar,
It seems like Warrens organization is in pretty much of a shambles right now. I don't think even his followers know for sure who will step in.
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(17 of 19)
May 16, 2008 7:57 AM
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> When an apostle dies, the remaining members of the 12
> and the First Presidency meet together and propose
> names of men in the Church for a new apostle. These
> names will usually come from other general
> authorities. Once the names are submitted; they, the
> apostles and the presidency will get together and
> pray and when they are all agreed, that man is the
> next apostle.
Sounds a lot like the election of a Pope.
So, zoar, is there a 'next senior apostle"? Someone who could step in for Warren Jeffs?
--
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe
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May 16, 2008 12:34 AM
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> mar,
>
> As to Warren Jeffs admitting he was not the prophet,
> that surprised me. From an LDS stand point he would
> be correct, but I don?t know how his followers would
> take it.
>
> BTW, if you want to read an excellent book on
> fundamentalist polygamy, see if you can locate
> ?Modern Polygamy and Mormon Fundamentalism? by Brian
> C Hales. All the names that you are familiar with
> such as Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow and others go all the
> way back to the beginnings of fundamentalism and even
> further because their ancestors were once very active
> in the LDS Church and even held prominent positions
> until after the manifesto.
>
> It thoroughly explains the Mormon theology behind
> fundamentalist beliefs which is essential if you want
> to understand the FLDS. One thing of interest I found
> out in my reading is that the FLDS generally regarded
> the President of the LDS Church as his chosen prophet
> up until the 1970?s. This seemed to be affirmed by
> earlier leaders in the fundamentalist movement.
I thought I read somewhere that change is thought to have something to do with the revelation about the priesthood being given to Blacks. I think that happened in 1978. I am not sure if that is fact or rumor though.
--
I believe that heroes are the people who do what has to be done, when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.
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May 16, 2008 12:30 AM
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Thanks, again, Zoar. I really appreciate you answering my questions about how things work in FLDS.
--
I believe that heroes are the people who do what has to be done, when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.
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May 15, 2008 9:35 PM
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> Thanks for the explanation. Now the next question
> tion is: how does a man become an apostle? Is that an
> assigned or elected position? Am I right in assuming
> that being an apostle is a lifetime position? Except
> for resignation or death, is there any way that an
> apostle stops being an apostle?
>
withay, this may appear twice because of the funny way this forum has been acting but I will try again
When an apostle dies, the remaining members of the 12 and the First Presidency meet together and propose names of men in the Church for a new apostle. These names will usually come from other general authorities. Once the names are submitted; they, the apostles and the presidency will get together and pray and when they are all agreed, that man is the next apostle.
When the next general conference takes place, the man they have chosen is presented before the body of the Church and they are asked to sustain the man. This is called the law of common consent. This is a lifetime position.
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5/13/08
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(13 of 19)
May 15, 2008 2:58 PM
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> As to Warren Jeffs admitting he was not the prophet,
> that surprised me. From an LDS stand point he would
> be correct, but I don?t know how his followers would
> take it.
The FLDS currently appear to be ignoring his jailhouse confessions and comments. Even his brother Nephi who was at the jail during one of those replied, "This is only a test." The concept here is that they think that God will sometimes test you to do something strange, like Abraham to kill Isaac, and then if you pass the test, you find out the truth. Perhaps they think this is just a test of their faith. If they stay loyal to Jeffs, they will pass the test. My theory.
I've posted more details about how Jeffs took power and his jailhouse confessions at: http://flds101.blogspot.com/
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May 15, 2008 2:28 PM
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> > Now, another related question. If Warren Jeffs
> has
> > declared that he was never the Prophet, who
> would be?
> > The senior apostle under him, or the next
> senior
> > r under Rulon Jeffs? I realize it's a question
> you
> > may not be able to answer, just wondering what
> your
> > opinion would be.
>
>
> mar,
>
> As to Warren Jeffs admitting he was not the prophet,
> that surprised me. From an LDS stand point he would
> be correct, but I don?t know how his followers would
> take it.
>
> BTW, if you want to read an excellent book on
> fundamentalist polygamy, see if you can locate
> ?Modern Polygamy and Mormon Fundamentalism? by Brian
> C Hales. All the names that you are familiar with
> such as Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow and others go all the
> way back to the beginnings of fundamentalism and even
> further because their ancestors were once very active
> in the LDS Church and even held prominent positions
> until after the manifesto.
>
> It thoroughly explains the Mormon theology behind
> fundamentalist beliefs which is essential if you want
> to understand the FLDS. One thing of interest I found
> out in my reading is that the FLDS generally regarded
> the President of the LDS Church as his chosen prophet
> up until the 1970?s. This seemed to be affirmed by
> earlier leaders in the fundamentalist movement.
Thanks, zoar!
It seems in the rather superficial interviews we've seen that the FLDS are holding to Jeffs as the prophet. Maybe they don't even know he renounced it.
--
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe
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May 15, 2008 1:34 PM
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> Thanks, zoar, as always.
>
> Now, another related question. If Warren Jeffs has
> declared that he was never the Prophet, who would be?
> The senior apostle under him, or the next senior
> r under Rulon Jeffs? I realize it's a question you
> may not be able to answer, just wondering what your
> opinion would be.
>
&
mar,
As to Warren Jeffs admitting he was not the prophet, that surprised me. From an LDS stand point he would be correct, but I don?t know how his followers would take it.
BTW, if you want to read an excellent book on fundamentalist polygamy, see if you can locate ?Modern Polygamy and Mormon Fundamentalism? by Brian C Hales. All the names that you are familiar with such as Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow and others go all the way back to the beginnings of fundamentalism and even further because their ancestors were once very active in the LDS Church and even held prominent positions until after the manifesto.
It thoroughly explains the Mormon theology behind fundamentalist beliefs which is essential if you want to understand the FLDS. One thing of interest I found out in my reading is that the FLDS generally regarded the President of the LDS Church as his chosen prophet up until the 1970?s. This seemed to be affirmed by earlier leaders in the fundamentalist movement.
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May 15, 2008 1:32 PM
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> Now, another related question. If Warren Jeffs has
> declared that he was never the Prophet, who would be?
> The senior apostle under him, or the next senior
> r under Rulon Jeffs? I realize it's a question you
> may not be able to answer, just wondering what your
> opinion would be.
mar,
As to Warren Jeffs admitting he was not the prophet, that surprised me. From an LDS stand point he would be correct, but I don?t know how his followers would take it.
BTW, if you want to read an excellent book on fundamentalist polygamy, see if you can locate ?Modern Polygamy and Mormon Fundamentalism? by Brian C Hales. All the names that you are familiar with such as Jeffs, Jessop, Barlow and others go all the way back to the beginnings of fundamentalism and even further because their ancestors were once very active in the LDS Church and even held prominent positions until after the manifesto.
It thoroughly explains the Mormon theology behind fundamentalist beliefs which is essential if you want to understand the FLDS. One thing of interest I found out in my reading is that the FLDS generally regarded the President of the LDS Church as his chosen prophet up until the 1970?s. This seemed to be affirmed by earlier leaders in the fundamentalist movement.
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Posts:
1,057
Registered:
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(9 of 19)
May 15, 2008 1:30 PM
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> Thanks for the explanation. Now the next question
> tion is: how does a man become an apostle? Is that an
> assigned or elected position? Am I right in assuming
> that being an apostle is a lifetime position? Except
> for resignation or death, is there any way that an
> apostle stops being an apostle?
withay,
When an apostle dies, the remaining members of the 12 and the First Presidency meet together and propose names of men in the Church for a new apostle. These names will usually come from other general authorities. Once the names are submitted; they, the apostles and the presidency will get together and pray and when they are all agreed, that man is the next apostle.
When the next general conference takes place, the man they have chosen is presented before the body of the Church and they are asked to sustain the man. This is called the law of common consent. This is a lifetime position.
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9,017
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(8 of 19)
May 14, 2008 10:26 AM
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> Zoar,
> Thanks for the explanation. Now the next question
> tion is: how does a man become an apostle? Is that an
> assigned or elected position? Am I right in assuming
> that being an apostle is a lifetime position? Except
> for resignation or death, is there any way that an
> apostle stops being an apostle?
Thanks, zoar, as always.
Now, another related question. If Warren Jeffs has declared that he was never the Prophet, who would be? The senior apostle under him, or the next senior under Rulon Jeffs? I realize it's a question you may not be able to answer, just wondering what your opinion would be.
--
Whatever you can do, or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. - Goethe
--
Edited by Marionj2 at 05/14/2008 7:26 AM PDT
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May 14, 2008 8:15 AM
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> > Zoar,
> > Okay, I understand that big doctrine changing
> > nging revelations come through the prophet. How
> is
> > the prophet "chosen" (I am sure that's not the
> right
> > word)? In the case of the Jeffs was it "handed
> down"
> > or was it just happenstance that it was from
> father
> > to son?
> >
>
>
>
>
> Withay,
>
> When the prophet dies, the senior apostle becomes the
> prophet. This has happened since the death of Joseph
> Smith. Since apostles are appointed for life, the
> senior apostle would be the one who had been in the
> quorum the longest. If the senior apostle dies, then
> the one just behind him would become the senior
> apostle. Just supposing that the senior apostle at
> the present time would become the President of the
> LDS Church when the current one should pass away is
> not always how it would be since one never knows who
> would be the senior apostle at that time. That is why
> the LDS believe that God plans when the time comes,
> who the next prophet will be.
>
> --
> Edited by zoar63 at 05/14/2008 4:51 AM PDT
>
> --
> Edited by zoar63 at 05/14/2008 4:56 AM PDT
Zoar,
Thanks for the explanation. Now the next question is: how does a man become an apostle? Is that an assigned or elected position? Am I right in assuming that being an apostle is a lifetime position? Except for resignation or death, is there any way that an apostle stops being an apostle?
--
I believe that heroes are the people who do what has to be done, when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.
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May 14, 2008 7:51 AM
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> Zoar,
> Okay, I understand that big doctrine changing
> nging revelations come through the prophet. How is
> the prophet "chosen" (I am sure that's not the right
> word)? In the case of the Jeffs was it "handed down"
> or was it just happenstance that it was from father
> to son?
>
Withay,
When the prophet dies, the senior apostle becomes the prophet. This has happened since the death of Joseph Smith. Since apostles are appointed for life, the senior apostle would be the one who had been in the quorum the longest. If the senior apostle dies, then the one just behind him would become the senior apostle. Just supposing that the senior apostle at the present time would become the President of the LDS Church when the current one should pass away is not always how it would be since one never knows who would be the senior apostle at that time. That is why the LDS believe that God plans when the time comes, who the next prophet will be.
--
Edited by zoar63 at 05/14/2008 4:51 AM PDT
--
Edited by zoar63 at 05/14/2008 4:56 AM PDT
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May 14, 2008 12:28 AM
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Zoar,
Okay, I understand that big doctrine changing revelations come through the prophet. How is the prophet "chosen" (I am sure that's not the right word)? In the case of the Jeffs was it "handed down" or was it just happenstance that it was from father to son?
--
I believe that heroes are the people who do what has to be done, when it needs to be done, regardless of the consequences.
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