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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
My wife posts here as El1sa and after quoting something I had told her, she informed me that someone who apparently 'speaks' for the entire board let her know that you are the only person here that EVERY POSTER considers knowledgeable about Moronism.
The followoing are some of my qualifications regarding my knowledge and experience of LDS:
I am a 6th generation Mormon, studied LDS History at BYU where I worked and researched subjects in the LDS Archives. I have copies of files that represent 25 years of research on Mormon topics. All of these files are copied from primary original source documents,
letters, diaries, minutes of meetings, etc.; Adam-God quotes from diaries, letters, journals and The St. George Temple plus over 300 quotes regarding polygamy, 400 quotes relating to The Temple Endowment, Temple Garments, Calling & Election, Book of Anointings, Book of Sealings and Adoptions, Nauvoo Temple record etc. and various esoteric Mormon topics. In addition, I have copies of diaries and letters of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Willard Richards, Wilford Woodruff, Heber Kimball, D.W. Patten, Edward Partridge, William Clayton, William E. Mclellin, James Traughberg along with various letters from other early members such as John E. Page. I was instrumental in the leaking of the 1990 Temple Ceremony to the Tanners and others.
So, Zoar, what kinds of knowledge of the LDS do you have so that people here think you are to be believed and my wife to be pushed aside? I would like to get into a dialogue with you because I am 100% positive that when it comes to Moronism, at the very least, the other posters here will see with no doubt whatsoever that I have superior background & knowledge and that they will also see how foolish it is to take the word of one person who has not proved themselves other than to provide quotes from the D&C and/or BoM.
Gazelem
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(55 of 115)
Mar 18, 2009 1:17 PM
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"I take it you're objecting to de-escalating the animosities for the sake of animosities?"
I can see right through her. It's ridiculous. So why not have some fun? I wonder if *she's* a 6th generation Mormon, or maybe she's just married to one? Maybe she just plays one on TV?
e
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(54 of 115)
Mar 18, 2009 1:17 PM
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> I'm *also* a 6th GENERATION Mormon, so shove it up
> your ass. My name is Steven Hamblin Lee. Ever heard
> of Jacob Hamblin? How about John Doyle Lee? Both my
> namesakes. So shove it up your ass. I left when I was
> 38 yo, I was in Evergreen for 12 years.
>
> I don't care if you have a million folders stuffed
> FULL of Mormon LORE, it doesn't make you or anyone
> else a better purveyor of that asinine cult.
>
> e
EXACTLY!!!!
However, those ignorant of LDS believe it to be a religion.
I will run those names by my husband; I know nothing of them, however I do know the hurt & harm caused by the LDS cult.
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(53 of 115)
Mar 18, 2009 1:13 PM
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> SO...You KNOW Mark Hoffman?
> Or are you just full of shit?
> Why would you drop that name?
I take it you're objecting to de-escalating the animosities for the sake of animosities?
Edited to say: Never mind. I see that Gazelem is equally interested in them so I'm no longer interested in this thread.
--
Edited by laverite at 03/18/2009 10:16 AM PDT
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 1:11 PM
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> > My wife posts here as El1sa and after quoting
> > something I had told her, she informed me that
> > someone who apparently 'speaks' for the entire
> board
> > let her know that you are the only person here
> that
> > EVERY POSTER considers knowledgeable about
> Moronism.
> >
> Gazelem,
>
> Both you and your wife are mistaken, to put it
> politely.
>
> I'm the one who responded to her post. I do not
> speak for the entire board, and nobody said zoar is
> considered the only one knowledgeable about
> Mormonism.
>
> When your wife posted with your opinions (not hers),
> zoar replied in his usual thoughtful, courteous
> manner, and I thanked him. Then I thought it would
> be polite to "introduce" him to El1sa and explain why
> I was thanking him. Nobody pushed your wife aside in
> any way.
>
> A couple of weeks later, your wife came storming onto
> another thread complaining about my response, so I
> explained again. She said that she would like to see
> her husband debate Mormon issues with zoar, and I
> said yes, I thought that would be interesting. I
> would like to see a reasonable discussion between a
> current Mormon and an ex-Mormon - emphasis on
> "reasonable."
>
> zoar, I apologize for having somehow triggered this
> by acknowledging you as the board's "resident source
> for all things Mormon." It was intended as a
> compliment and an introduction - nothing more.
>
> By the way, Gazelem, I assume that your two
> references to "Moronism" in this thread's header were
> intended to be "Mormonism." "Moronism" is defined as
> the "state of being a moron."
>
> --
> Oliver Wendell Holmes:
>
> "The most stringent protection of free speech would
> not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater
> and causing a panic."
>
> "Your right to swing your fist ends where my nose
> begins."
>
> --
> Edited by Marionj2 at 03/18/2009 8:14 AM PDT
[From Gazelem] I believe my wife before I would believe the specific snob who hurt her feelings. She explained that Zoar did not respond to her post containing my knowledge, but that you did indeed post to her that everyone on this board considers Zoar to be your only source for LDS. I intentionally wrote "Moronism" because that is what it is.
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(51 of 115)
Mar 18, 2009 1:08 PM
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SO...You KNOW Mark Hoffman?
Or are you just full of shit?
Why would you drop that name?
e
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 1:05 PM
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titannia, those who speak on behalf of Zoar have been hurtful to the one I love most in the world - my wife.
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 1:04 PM
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> Moronism: Moronism is superior to all
> other philosophies, because it doesn't even try to
> make sense of anything. On the contrary, it abandons
> from the outset any effort to understand anything.
> It embraces the obvious and ignores the complex. No
> o other philosophy does this!
>
You are correct about Moronism or mormonism, however, you are incorrect that "no other philosophy does this!
On the other hand, you have never been cruel to me (El1sa) and I thank you for that.
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:58 PM
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> > The followoing are some of my qualifications
> > regarding my knowledge and experience of LDS:
> >
> > I am a 6th generation Mormon, studied LDS
> History at
> > BYU where I worked and researched subjects in
> the LDS
> > Archives. I have copies of files that represent
> 25
> > years of research on Mormon topics. All of
> these
> > files are copied from primary original source
> > documents,
> > letters, diaries, minutes of meetings, etc.;
> Adam-God
> > quotes from diaries, letters, journals and The
> St.
> > George Temple plus over 300 quotes regarding
> > polygamy, 400 quotes relating to The Temple
> > Endowment, Temple Garments, Calling & Election,
> Book
> > of Anointings, Book of Sealings and Adoptions,
> Nauvoo
> > Temple record etc. and various esoteric Mormon
> > topics. In addition, I have copies of diaries
> and
> > letters of Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Willard
> > Richards, Wilford Woodruff, Heber Kimball, D.W.
> > Patten, Edward Partridge, William Clayton,
> William E.
> > Mclellin, James Traughberg along with various
> > letters from other early members such as John
> E.
> > Page. I was instrumental in the leaking of the
> 1990
> > Temple Ceremony to the Tanners and others.
>
> I'm curious Gazelem, are you still a member of the
> LDS church?
>
> Another question. Is the information you were privy
> to in the LDS Archives, information that is available
> to the public or at least active church members?
>
> --
> Against logic there is no armor like ignorance
[From Gazelem] No, I am most certainly not a member of the LDS church nor have I been for years.
The information those of us were privy to in the Archives is not available to the public ... be they active church members or not, however, several of us certainly had a good time disseminating it when we were attending BYU. One who did not have a good time, nor was he in any way connected to me, was Mark Hoffman - you've heard of him, right?
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(47 of 115)
Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:56 PM
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Anybody else get the feeling that El1sa is a reincarnation of Katia?
--
"I believe the church and its leaders are in grave error on polygamy, and on the kinds of marriages and families it creates. I can't forsake my family." Sister Barbara Dutton Henrickson
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:44 PM
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> Hey Gazelem. If you only have one-TENTH of all that
> material from your time at BYU (what years were you
> there? I was a student 1970-1973) you sure have my
> vote as knowing your stuff!
>
> Would love to hear more....
>
> Latayne C Scott
> www.latayne.com
> novelmatters.blogspot.com
[From Gazelem]I attended BYU from 1982 and earned my bachelor's degree from BYU in 1986. It was both saddening to learn the truth about moronism and exciting to pass on copies of original documents about same. Nevertheless, it caused me to get my advanced degrees from other universities as well as propelled me on my way out of moronism. Considering my ancestry, it was very sad to come to terms with what I consider a COMPLETELY false belief system. If you want to read more, I will go to your site as soon as I am able and will be pleased to begin a friendly dialogue with you!.
--
Edited by El1sa at 03/18/2009 9:47 AM PDT
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:41 PM
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> With all due respect, I am LOL that you are spouting
> off about gender equality and simultaneously saying
> that you'll have to refer the question at hand to
> your husband.
LOL
--
4bee
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:37 PM
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With all due respect, I am LOL that you are spouting off about gender equality and simultaneously saying that you'll have to refer the question at hand to your husband.
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Mar 18, 2009 12:34 PM
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> I don't believe Zoar has ever been LDS. I may be
> wrong though. I haven't personally communicated with
> him.
>
> I am an ex-mormon and lifelong Utahn who knows a
> great deal about the LDS church.
>
> Current LDS true-believers on this board, especially
> those holding the 'holy priesthood', beg to differ.
> They find me to be either a liar, crazy, misinformed
> d or suffering from Ahlzeimer's.
>
> Some of the above mentioned posters don't care to
> have 'mormonism' discussed on this web site. They
> seem to prefer all dialogue remain in the narrow
> constraint of only "Big Love, TV Show".
>
> I can't imagine how mormonism can possibly be left
> out of the discussion.
>
> Welcome to the board. Unfortunately I have to nod
> off now. Very tired.
>
> --
> Edited by rainmom at 03/17/2009 6:43 PM PDT
>
> --
> Edited by rainmom at 03/17/2009 6:44 PM PDT
Thank you for the welcome, rainmom! 
Zoar never claimed to be moron, as far as I know; however when I used my husband's pedigree to respond to Marion (I think there is a letter & a number after the name, but I don't care to check), that poster told me in no uncertain terms that this board goes to Zoar for all things moron ... i.e. I should just SHUT UP.
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:30 PM
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> Being someone who isn't at all familiar with the
> mormon religion, I enjoy reading posts on this board
> from those posters who have experienced the religion
> (on whatever level)
>
> My biggest question about this religion is why there
> seems to be such a sense of family yet women aren't
> given the same respect as men. They aren't allowed to
> hold the same "powers" as men. They aren't allowed at
> church functions that cater only to men. It's sad to
> see the civil rights clock turned back 200+ years
> every Sunday night.
>
> I mention this because I'm hoping that someday,
> someone can give me a logical answer to this question
> and being that the original poster has a long list of
> mormon qualifications, pehaps they'll be the one that
> can finally explain this to me.
>
> --
> Edited by dallasdarling at 03/17/2009 6:36 PM PDT
If you'll note, religions that are evangelical are more unequal between the genders: It's simply that woman are not as 'good' as men. I will pass this, the only intelligent query on this board, along to my husband so that he can answer it with moron authority (you idiots, he and I both wrote moron rather than Mormon or LDS for a non-so-subtle purpose).
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Re: For Zoar, The Only One Here With Knowledge of All things LDS
Mar 18, 2009 12:27 PM
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InterestingTime wrote:
> You're right. People join churches because of the
> freedom and joy that the endless love of God
> provides. Many people feel that the equal love of
> God implies equality in front of God. (And
> therefore, just plain human equality.)
ITime- it should be desirable to mention, that an equal opportunity has been given to everyone prior to joining the Church- learning Catechism, dogma, history of the Church, as well as the structures of the governance of the Church. Besides the ''freedom and joy of the endless love'' there are obligations and duties to be observed. If one, being unsatisfied with the rules, chooses to join the Church anyway, perhaps with the intent of starting a distraction within, why blame anybody for enforcing resistance to such attempts?
And- if one has been a member of the Church since childhood, has grown up, and suddenly has grown to become so very clever and smart and smarter then everyone around- seeing the need of fighting the very house one has been in- there is only one advice- get out!
A woman wanting to be a priestess? Sure, why not- go Anglican, go Lutheran! There you have it!
> Many people feel that the equal love of
> God implies equality in front of God. (And
> therefore, just plain human equality.)
What does it mean- equal love? Who's measuring?
Does ones unsatisfied desire of being a priestess in a Church signifies violation of ''plain human equality''?
Where in the history of humanity has it been written- that as a birthright given by God everyone needs to become a priest.
And, unless that has been fulfilled- there is none of that ''plain human equality''. And, while you are at that- ask for equality in front of God- why does not God provide a penis to a woman and vagina to a man - so that everything and everyone at last becoming totally equal .
> I know
> nuns/ex-nuns who were jailed for protesting for civil
> rights in the 60s. (In habits and all!)
I suppose the jail was that place where they did belong at that time. I suppose that's why they are ex- nuns.
> No, but it is the business of the people who belong
> to those churches. As such, I am happy to support my
> mother in her tireless advocacy for women in the
> Church (my mother is a lay Benedictine), as well
please, advice your mother to be tireless in her prayers for the Salvation of her soul, that would serve her better.
> many other men and women who feel that way.
>
Yeah, as a rule- people would have many urgent feelings, but very little sense.
> There are many LDS women who also feel that the same
> way. I have two very dear friends who consider
> themselves both feminists and dedicated Mormons.
Choose your friends carefully, rebellious, confused and power hungry company often times would lead one astray.
--
4bee
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