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I've been keeping track of this blog for a while now as he's been counting down the top 50 Middleweights. I have to admit, I was surprised at Sugar Ray being #2: http://timesonline.typepad.com/boxing/ He's got Marvin Haggler at #3, Carlos Monzon #4 and Bernard Hopkins rounding out the top 5 at #5. He hasn't posted #1 yet, and he's not real consistent with how often he posts so it's hard to say when he'll unveil his #1 pick. What do you think of his choices so far? -- ~Susan
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(38 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
Jun 17, 2008 5:15 PM
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From the guys blog
Top 50 middleweights ever - the final list
For the sake of a bit of good housekeeping, I thought I would round off this series with a full top 50 and a few observations.
My first feelings looking back at the list are that Roy Jones Jr is a bit high. This is mostly due to his comparison with Hopkins and Toney, but a boxer who spent such a short part of his career at middleweight, shouldn't really turn up at No 7 on the list. Likewise, Ray Leonard is probably a bit lucky to be in the top 20. Marcel Cerdan could be a bit low, but his loss to LaMotta, who I don't feel really deserves a higher spot is dragging him back. Emile Griffith, Dick Tiger and Bob Fitzsimmons probably have claims to step up a bit too.
I feel it is very likely, if this list was done in 2-3 years time, that Kelly Pavlik will be entering the upper reaches of the list. That in turn would drag Jermain Taylor up a bit. Certainly, should Pavlik and Arthur Abraham meet, the winner of that would be worth of, at the very least, a top 20 spot.
I'll be starting another list in the next few days, which will give us the chance to debate a whole new division, as well as my latest pound-for-pound rankings, which I'm sure will feature Pavlik.
1. Harry Greb
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Marvin Hagler
4. Carlos Monzon
5. Bernard Hopkins
6. Stanley Ketchel
7. Roy Jones Jr
8. Mickey Walker
9. Gene Fullmer
10. Tony Zale
11. Jake LaMotta
12. Marcel Cerdan
13. Charlie 'Kid' McCoy
14. Gerald McClellan
15. Carl 'Bobo' Olson
16. Freddie Steele
17. James Toney
18. Mike McCallum
19. Randolph Turpin
20. Ray Leonard
21. Nino Benvenuti
22. Laszlo Papp
23. Joey Giardello
24. Dick Tiger
25. Carmen Basilio
26. Bob Fitzsimmons
27. Michael Nunn
28. Rocky Graziano
29. Sumbu Kalambay
30. Marcel Thil
31. Mike O'Dowd
32. Tommy Ryan
33. Emile Griffith
34. Paul Pender
35. Billy Papke
36. Alan Minter
37. Julian Jackson
38. Kelly Pavlik
39. Jermain Taylor
40. Chris Eubank
41. Hugo Corro
42. Rodrigo Valdes
43. Vito Antuofermo
44. Tiger Flowers
45. Terry Downes
46. Charley Burley
47. Nigel Benn
48. Iran Barkley
49. Herol Graham
50. Thomas Hearns
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5,384
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(37 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
Jun 17, 2008 12:23 AM
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> the best 50 in the last 40 years
>
> 1) Hagler
> 2) Calzaghe
> 3) Roy Jones
> 4) Leonard
> 5) Duran
Calzaghe didn't fight at professionally 160? did he?
--
Do you smell what Barack is cookin?
tan.the.man24@hotmail.com
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(36 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
Jun 16, 2008 3:29 AM
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Top 50 middleweights ever - No 1, Harry Greb
So we get to No 1 and the last card in the pack is Harry Greb. Perhaps not as well known as Robinson, Hagler, Monzon, Hopkins or Ketchel, but he stayed around the middleweight limit, despite boxing many bigger guys, and his achievements match any of those mentioned above.
In fact maybe his achievements outweigh most of those for one very simple fact - for most of his career, he was blind in one eye and late on he was losing his sight in the other one too.
But there is a fact about Greb that most people know - that he was the only man to have beaten Gene Tunney.
The bout Greb won was on May 23 1922 at Madison Square Garden. Tunney had nearly a stone weight advantage, but Greb boxed like he always did, swarming forwards, chopping Tunney up and eventually winning a unanimous decision. In fact Tunney and Greb boxed five times (it was the days when boxers boxed all the time - Greb had around 300 fights), Tunney won three, one was drawn and Greb won one. Tunney never lost again and went on to win the heavyweight title from Jack Dempsey, retiring as champion.
Greb was known as the Pittsburgh Windmill, an apt description for his non-stop attacking style. As well as Tunney he beat a host of champions and was very clever in the ring and also, often, quite dirty. Among the champions he beat were Battling Levinsky, Jack Dillon, Mike McTigue, Tommy Loughran, Mickey Walker (against whom he apparently fought an impromptu rematch in a bar after the fight).
Among his other notable scalps were Mike Gibbons, and heavyweights Billy Miske and Gunboat Smith. But if Greb was dirty, what of Kid Norfolk, whose thumb cost Greb the sight in his eye in 1921? When they boxed a rematch in 1924, Norfolk apparently head butted Greb into the second press row. He then repeatedly hit Greb low and Greb was disqualified when he retaliated. When they kept fighting at the end, the referee fled to the dressing-rooms fearing a riot. Both boxers were banned from boxing in Massachusetts for six months.
When he lost the title to Tiger Flowers in 1926 he must have been a physical wreck, but he was still considered unlucky. He lost a rematch in August that year and then retired, having an operation soon after to replace his blind eye with a fake one. He was seen at the Tunney-Dempsey first fight in Philadelphia the following month with a patch over an eye after the operation.
Sadly there was to be no long happy retirement for Greb. He died on October 22 1926 after an operation to remove a small fractured bone from his nose, an injury he had received in a car crash. He was 32.
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195
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(35 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
Jun 15, 2008 10:59 PM
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the best 50 in the last 40 years
1) Hagler
2) Calzaghe
3) Roy Jones
4) Leonard
5) Duran
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628
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(34 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 18, 2008 10:10 PM
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A testament to Roy Jones's skill in his prime: My dad had grown to hate boxing because of the politics, jive asses, and holding that would go on in most fights. He was actually the one who called me and told me I had to see this guy Jones fight. Even though my dad did not like Roy's mouth he would say that this was the most exciting fighter he had seen in a long time. He admired the way Jones could throw punches from all angles and combinations as fast as a blur. ALot of people didnt know about Jones until he was a light heavyweight. This was not his best weight. When he was middleweight he was knocking fools out and at supermw too. JOnes's ability and skill have to rate him among the best of all time. I will always remember my dad hating boxing but liked to watch Jones especially before he went to lightheavy.
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Douglas
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(33 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 18, 2008 3:02 AM
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Your right toe. I gotta get some sleep though. Peace guys.
--
Do you smell what Barack is cookin?
tan.the.man24@hotmail.com
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(32 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 18, 2008 3:00 AM
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> 1 Sugar Ray Robinson
> 2 Harry Greb
> 3 Marvin Hagler
> 4 Roy Jones jr
> 5 Bernard Hopkins.
>
> Just off the top of my head and not precisely in
> order.
>
I'd have to squeeze Monzon in there somewhere.
Since I wasn't watching much boxing again until
lately and didn't catch that many of Roy Jones's
fights, I guess I'll replace him. Hopkins stretch
was just too long to dump him.
I also think I'd replace Greb with Ketchel as
an equally good fighter (so I've heard) with
the much bigger punch.
I'd have a hard time argueing with the guys
who like Hagler at the very front.
--
"Fighters today are babied.
Back in my day, we took risks and fought 'em all."
Bob Foster - undisputed Lightheavyweight champion 1968 - 1974
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235
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(31 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 7:55 PM
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hopkins is a good fighter, and was a good mw champ, but he isnt in my top 5 all time mw's, i think he's being over rated....
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(30 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 6:56 PM
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> I don't know if I can put Roy in THAT list, given
> that he was a MW for about a minute...
>
> Marvin Hagler's #1... B-Hop is probably #2... monzon
> #3...
I agree with the Roy statement.
I wouldnt put B-Hop above Monzon.....i wouldnt put Hagler ahead of him either. B-Hop falls below both of them, imo, and Hagler/Monzon is a toss up....they were both beyond outstanding.
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(29 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 2:10 PM
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> I dont really acknowledge Hopkins because I dont
> really think he bit anyone except some pumped up
> welterweights. First true big mw that came along in
> Taylor, look what happened. I think Hopkins won so
> many defense because of lack of competition. He is
> sooooo lucky that Jones went up in weight. Jones
> could have been mw champ for a long long time.
>
> --
> Douglas
I fear Pavlik will make the same mistake by waisting his good years fighting lame competition. My reason for putting Hopkins and Jones on the list is simply because I think they had the ability to fight the great middleweights of the past. I can Imagine Hopkins Running from Haggler like Leonard did. Difference being Hopkins would look to throw just 1 punch. Jones in his prime could have faced any top 10 middleweight. He may have even beat Ray Robinson If they fought but I'm not sure He could last 15 round though.
--
Do you smell what Barack is cookin?
tan.the.man24@hotmail.com
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(28 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 10:11 AM
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I dont really acknowledge Hopkins because I dont really think he bit anyone except some pumped up welterweights. First true big mw that came along in Taylor, look what happened. I think Hopkins won so many defense because of lack of competition. He is sooooo lucky that Jones went up in weight. Jones could have been mw champ for a long long time.
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Douglas
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10,726
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(27 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 10:06 AM
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I don't know if I can put Roy in THAT list, given that he was a MW for about a minute...
Marvin Hagler's #1... B-Hop is probably #2... monzon #3...
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628
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(26 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 10:02 AM
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Talent wise Roy Jones Jr. but he did not stay at middleweight very long. Hagler favorite middleweight. Sugar Ray Robinson of course was great mw. Those are my top 3.
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Douglas
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(25 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 3:40 AM
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1 Sugar Ray Robinson
2 Harry Greb
3 Marvin Hagler
4 Roy Jones jr
5 Bernard Hopkins.
Just off the top of my head and not precisely in order.
--
Do you smell what Barack is cookin?
tan.the.man24@hotmail.com
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(24 of 38)
Re: Top 50 Middleweights ever
May 17, 2008 1:30 AM
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> Oddly enough Oscar has a win over 2 on the list.
>
Officially speaking. 
I got to step out for awhile but was kinda
wondering what your top five Middleweights
might look like.
--
"Fighters today are babied.
Back in my day, we took risks and fought 'em all."
Bob Foster - undisputed Lightheavyweight champion 1968 - 1974
--
Edited by JimEarl at 05/16/2008 10:33 PM PDT
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