|
|
Some fighters are hyped up so much that their handlers don't protect them by putting them up against very strong opposition too quickly or they can't handle the pressures of the fame and money. Then again there are some fighters that never get a break for whatever reason. I'd like to hear which fighters the board thinks are or were examples of this.
|
Posts:
29
Registered:
1/15/08
|
|
(19 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Aug 4, 2009 9:32 PM
|
|
I agree with ecooley about Fernando Vargas he probably was pushed along faster than any other fighter in history. I have to disagree about the Mike Tyson. Unlike Vargas, Tyson didn't have immediate danger in his division, he was so much more quick and explosive than the other fighters that it wouldn't have made since to take things slow. Vargas on the other hand was operating on guts will and raw talent, which was evident against Quartey and even the Trinidad fight. (Also the Trinidad fight may have had a different outcome if not for Trinidad resorting to a number of low blows.) Anyway, Vargas should not have been in there with an experienced Champion like Trinidad so soon. He gave a good account of himself though.
|
|
|
Posts:
740
Registered:
5/13/06
|
|
(18 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 27, 2009 6:40 PM
|
I'm glad Vargas fought Trinidad and Delahoya early cause Vargas had a big mouth and they both closed it for him by knocking his arrogant ass out. Vargas was a good fighter that just could not be great. Mosley knocked his ass out too. With Vargas its simple his chin wasnt as hard as his fists. There it is..
--
Douglas
|
|
|
Posts:
710
Registered:
2/24/08
|
|
(17 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 27, 2009 5:32 PM
|
|
I tend to think Mike tyson was pushed along too fast. He blew through so many guys in so few rounds that once he made it to the upper echelon and fought guys who didn't crumble after his first shot that he didn't know what to do when it went to the later rounds. He couldn't hold together because he had never been there. Had he fought some more guys that would last but still lacked the skills to beat him he would have done much better in the second part of his career. People say the reason he seemed to breakdown against douglas was because of the chaos happening outside the ring, I don't agree. I think he had a guy in front of him that wasn't going to lay down for him and he didn't know what to do and it broke his spirit. The outside chaos may have played a part but I don't think it is as big as part as Tyson makes it out to be.
|
|
|
Posts:
710
Registered:
2/24/08
|
|
(16 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 27, 2009 5:18 PM
|
fernando vargas is by far the best fighter that was pushed along to quickly in his career. Anyone that would dispute that is an idiot. Before his 25 birthday he had already fought de la hoya and trinidad which r the 2 biggest names in recent boxing history. and he also had already fought quartey, winky wright, and yuri boy campas. that is way too much competition for a fighter that young. and that is y he was burned out by age 25. And as for chavez jr he is as good as he is gonna get. But bcuz of who his dad is they r gonna milk this for everything they can and when in reality...he just isnt that good. The guy is already 23 years old and has 40 pro fights. He isnt getting any better. HE has reached his peak which is a B level fighter. He will never b great. The sooner he realizes that the better.
That seems pretty contradictory. It's bad that Vargas faced top level competition early in his career but it's also bad that Chavez is taking his time getting to the top?
|
|
|
Posts:
640
Registered:
4/21/07
|
|
(15 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 27, 2009 5:11 PM
|
|
fernando vargas is by far the best fighter that was pushed along to quickly in his career. Anyone that would dispute that is an idiot. Before his 25 birthday he had already fought de la hoya and trinidad which r the 2 biggest names in recent boxing history. and he also had already fought quartey, winky wright, and yuri boy campas. that is way too much competition for a fighter that young. and that is y he was burned out by age 25. And as for chavez jr he is as good as he is gonna get. But bcuz of who his dad is they r gonna milk this for everything they can and when in reality...he just isnt that good. The guy is already 23 years old and has 40 pro fights. He isnt getting any better. HE has reached his peak which is a B level fighter. He will never b great. The sooner he realizes that the better.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,005
Registered:
10/4/07
|
|
(14 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 26, 2009 11:36 AM
|
|
We are sad to report that former world champion Vernon Forrest was tragically and senselessly murdered at about 11PM on Saturday night in Atlanta during an attempted carjacking. Reportedly Forrest had stopped at a gas station to put air in the tire of his late model Jaguar when two thugs attempted to take his vehicle. Forrest had a firearm and a chased away his assailants but according to Atlanta police, in an ensuing firefight Forrest was shot eight times with semi-automatic weapons.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,005
Registered:
10/4/07
|
|
(13 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 18, 2009 7:52 AM
|
Chavez Jr. isn't coming along 2 slowy, their moving him just right. Most of you are just not what you think you are-you're not really boxing fans. Being a boxing fan means you can appreciate all styles and you could especially appreciate watching a fighter being developed.
Chavez Jr has no amateur career what so ever-zero nothing-so tell me-should he fight a guy like Forrest right now-most of these guys had well over 150 amateur fights. If you're into video games you'll see how fighters are developed-you just can't fight a guy with 15 pro fights and your only on fight number 5.
We say Vargas and Reid were pushed-I say bullshit-Vargas had more than a little success-he performed well against Tito-the better man won that's all-he should've beat De La Hoya bottom line but anger lost that fight 4 him. Vargas defeated Campos before he was over the hill and he defeated Ike Quartey-how can you say Vargas was pushed 2 fast after he defeated a good Campos and a very good Quartey?
The problem with most of yall is you only watch super stars and have the nerve to say your a boxing fan-it takes a real fan to appreciate watching a fighter develope into something. Chavez Jr is on his way-the dude is calln good fighters out now-his team just wants him 2 fight a few more fights before they put him in there with a good named opponent just so they can be sure-have patience.
|
|
|
Posts:
7,583
Registered:
5/18/07
|
|
|
Posts:
12,076
Registered:
4/20/08
|
|
(11 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 16, 2009 11:10 PM
|
> Ortiz and Amir Khan are good examples. Both are
> too young and too raw. And a fighter that had never
> been gotten a good break is Kirkland. In my opinion,
> Kirkland is good enough to slug it out with some of
> the elites (if not for his stupidity and lack of
> discipline outside the ring.)
>
> I would have to disagree on this. Ortiz wasn't being
> brought up to fast, the way he was blasting through
> opponents (IMO) meant the kid needed to step up the
> level of competition, we know where he stands now
> after the Maidana fight. He ain't elite level yet,
> but he can become a contender.
>
> Look at JC Chavez Jr, he's being brought along slow,
> but people fail to see that, they complain that he
> hasn't fought anyone and that he's fighting bums on
> PPV when he has fought no marquee opponent. When a
> prospect is getting experience and getting his game
> tight, fans complain and demand they step up the
> level of competition ( Chavez Jr. ) ....but when they
> DO fight tough opponents and loose, fans say they
> weren't ready or "they were brought up to fast".
> Someone notice something wrong with this picture ??
> Everyone has to lose at one point or another no
> matter who it is, unless you're Floyd Mayweather.
>
>
> Boxing fans are never satisfied. Period.
Chavez Jr is being brought along too slow. He's gonna be 90-0 before we see him in a real fight. Ortiz had plenty of experience to get him ready for Maidana. He abandoned his game plan and didnt have a back up plan. He also found out he didnt have a backbone. If he expects to be a serious contender he's gonna have to revamp his entire game. Not sure he can do that.
--
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".
~ Lorena Bobbitt ~
|
|
|
Posts:
10
Registered:
7/16/09
|
|
(10 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 16, 2009 11:01 PM
|
all types of fighters get pushed too quickly, some come through, and some don't. Some take a beating early on and get better and some don't.
Obviously vargas had some minimal success. His biggest problem wasnt so much that he was pushed too quick, but that he fought at 154 for longer than he should've. After the trinidad loss, he probably should've moved up to 160 so he dont drain himself anymore. Kid had some thick frame on him.
Maybe this new kid on the block Angulo should've took a few more fights before fighting someone like Cintron. It was too soon. He could still be alright, he has the same type of chin like margarito and could comeback with some sucess.
|
|
|
Posts:
5,204
Registered:
6/5/06
|
|
(9 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 10, 2009 9:39 AM
|
I was waiting for someone to say David Reid ... this is absolutely false ...
Reid had a degenerative eye condition ... his career was on an egg timer anyway. His handlers knew it was borrowed time. And his Olympic career was built on a lucky punch anyway. He was moved quickly to try to get as much as possible while he could still fight. He ended the way he did, but it was a calculated decision. Move him slowly and he might never have been physically capable of getting into a mega pay day.
--
Cruiserweights - what the heavyweight division would be if the heavyweight division didn't really really really suck.
|
|
|
Posts:
3,042
Registered:
3/20/06
|
|
(8 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 10, 2009 3:09 AM
|
David Reid was moved much too quickly and was ruined by the same man in pretty much the same manner Fernando Vargas was. Davey Moore was another "champion" like Reid with all of 14 or 15 fights when he met Roberto Duran and proceeded to get demolished and ruined himself before his boxing skills had been honed to the point where he could deal well with a world class fighter.
--
Stay Thirsty My Friends!
|
|
|
Posts:
162
Registered:
5/20/09
|
|
(7 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 6, 2009 12:43 PM
|
|
The way it turned out, Fernando Vargas is the 1st that pops in my mind. At the time, I thought he was ready for Trinidad.
|
|
|
Posts:
489
Registered:
12/10/08
|
|
(6 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 6, 2009 10:19 AM
|
Ortiz and Amir Khan are good examples. Both are too young and too raw. And a fighter that had never been gotten a good break is Kirkland. In my opinion, Kirkland is good enough to slug it out with some of the elites (if not for his stupidity and lack of discipline outside the ring.)
I would have to disagree on this. Ortiz wasn't being brought up to fast, the way he was blasting through opponents (IMO) meant the kid needed to step up the level of competition, we know where he stands now after the Maidana fight. He ain't elite level yet, but he can become a contender.
Look at JC Chavez Jr, he's being brought along slow, but people fail to see that, they complain that he hasn't fought anyone and that he's fighting bums on PPV when he has fought no marquee opponent. When a prospect is getting experience and getting his game tight, fans complain and demand they step up the level of competition ( Chavez Jr. ) ....but when they DO fight tough opponents and loose, fans say they weren't ready or "they were brought up to fast". Someone notice something wrong with this picture ?? Everyone has to lose at one point or another no matter who it is, unless you're Floyd Mayweather.
Boxing fans are never satisfied. Period.
|
|
|
Posts:
743
Registered:
1/25/09
|
|
(5 of 19)
Re: Which fighters of the past or present were pushed along too quickly?
Jul 4, 2009 4:22 PM
|
Some fighters are hyped up so much that their handlers don't protect them by putting them up against very strong opposition too quickly or they can't handle the pressures of the fame and money. Then again there are some fighters that never get a break for whatever reason. I'd like to hear which fighters the board thinks are or were examples of this.
Ortiz and Amir Khan are good examples. Both are too young and too raw. And a fighter that had never been gotten a good break is Kirkland. In my opinion, Kirkland is good enough to slug it out with some of the elites (if not for his stupidity and lack of discipline outside the ring.)
|
|
|
|
|
