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Do you think there is a legitimate threat poised by Danny Green or Enrique Ornelas? Could Jones and Hopkins be completely shot by the time they get to their rematch? What are your thoughts?
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(24 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 24, 2009 1:13 PM
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>
> Ornelas is a walk in the park for Bernard. He's not
> as gifted as people think. He got where he's at by
> determination, heart and a willingness to walk
> through fire.
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Up until now I had never heard of Ornelas. This goes back to what I always say about B-hop. He is a master of hand-picking opponents (or ducking 'em)
The funny thing is I could go on and on about this guy but history (with influence from the media of course) will record that he was one of the "greatest" fighters of his generations.
Probably the same way some historians might say George Bush was one of the great American presidents.
"Sigh..."
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(23 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 22, 2009 10:56 AM
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> Hopkins - chances are low, very low. However,
> Ornelas is not a joke either. Should give Hopkins a
> legit day at the office.
>
> Roy - he is in harm's way. Fighting a solid guy
> (Green) on his turf for a cruiserweight belt. A win
> is certainly not a given.
Ornelas is a walk in the park for Bernard. He's not as gifted as people think. He got where he's at by determination, heart and a willingness to walk through fire.
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 22, 2009 10:55 AM
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> "Mzembe - Lets be clear. I despise Tarver. Cant stand
> his mouth. But after the KO Roy he came back and beat
> him by decision. He also got a win over Johnson and
> those were the two top guys at the time."
>
> Umm, yes, he got a win, but he also ducked Glen
> Johnson on the 3rd deciding fight. Why didn't he have
> a 2nd fight with Hopkins? oh, I forgot, he got
> executionized.....NEW WORD!!!
Love that word. But there wasnt no money in a second fight. It was probably Bernard as much as Tarver who didnt see the need for it. It might have been different if the first fight was competitive.
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(21 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 22, 2009 9:14 AM
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Hopkins - chances are low, very low. However, Ornelas is not a joke either. Should give Hopkins a legit day at the office.
Roy - he is in harm's way. Fighting a solid guy (Green) on his turf for a cruiserweight belt. A win is certainly not a given.
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 21, 2009 10:39 PM
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> Mzembe, in today's boxing world, its about money
> first and legacy next. Dominating a particular
> division has become secondary. And either way a
> fighter chooses to go, he's gonna be criticized.
>
> Roy Jones moved through the divisions early in his
> career, before eventually settling and dominating the
> light heavyweight division for several years. For
> the most part, he fought and beat every legit
> contender the division had to offer. But near the
> end of his reign as P4P King, he was criticized for
> not fighting the top fighters in other divisions.
>
> Floyd Mayweather took the other route. He
> established himself as an elite fighter by basically
> cleaning out the 130 lb division. Then, he proceeded
> to move up and pick off the top guy from lightweight
> to welterweight. Then, he reached megastar status
> with his win over de la Hoya. And now, he's taking
> the biggest events avilable to him. Now he's
> criticized for not fighting the top welterweights.
> But in turn, RJ was criticized for fighting the top
> p guys P4P, which Mayweather is doing.
>
> The truth of the matter is, you can't satisfy
> everyone. And boxing fans have no one to blame but
> ourselves for the biggest fights not happening.
> Because the fact is, no matter who a guy fights,
> , he's gonna be criticized in some form or fashion.
> IMO, a fighter would be borderline ignortant putting
> g what the fans want ahead of his bank account
> because at the end of the day you'll never satisfy
> everyone.
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You are right I guess. I am still hopeful that some dream match ups can or will happen. If only to rejuvenate the little spark that still lingers in boxing in terms of it being relevant and mainstream.
The Super Six tournament is def a spot in the right direction.
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 17, 2009 2:09 PM
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Mzembe, in today's boxing world, its about money first and legacy next. Dominating a particular division has become secondary. And either way a fighter chooses to go, he's gonna be criticized.
Roy Jones moved through the divisions early in his career, before eventually settling and dominating the light heavyweight division for several years. For the most part, he fought and beat every legit contender the division had to offer. But near the end of his reign as P4P King, he was criticized for not fighting the top fighters in other divisions.
Floyd Mayweather took the other route. He established himself as an elite fighter by basically cleaning out the 130 lb division. Then, he proceeded to move up and pick off the top guy from lightweight to welterweight. Then, he reached megastar status with his win over de la Hoya. And now, he's taking the biggest events avilable to him. Now he's criticized for not fighting the top welterweights. But in turn, RJ was criticized for fighting the top guys P4P, which Mayweather is doing.
The truth of the matter is, you can't satisfy everyone. And boxing fans have no one to blame but ourselves for the biggest fights not happening. Because the fact is, no matter who a guy fights, he's gonna be criticized in some form or fashion. IMO, a fighter would be borderline ignortant putting what the fans want ahead of his bank account because at the end of the day you'll never satisfy everyone.
--
Edited by hitking60 at 10/17/2009 11:10 AM PDT
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(18 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 17, 2009 1:14 PM
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> Mzembe - Lets be clear. I despise Tarver. Cant stand
> his mouth. But after the KO Roy he came back and beat
> him by decision. He also got a win over Johnson and
> those were the two top guys at the time.
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I don't disagree with you Gun. I am trying to give credit where it's due on some fighters but I just can't because of how events play themselves out.
Tarvers 3rd fight with Roy does not count. Roy was running scared pretty much 80% of the fight.
My arguement is usually this, if you beat the # 1 P4P fighter (in a shocking KO no less) then you need to stretch out that win to prove that it was no fluke by owning the division. Tarver did NOT do that (some might say he's not young).
Today if a fighter like Berto fights Floyd and KO's him, he better back that win with solid wins over the WW division, not for him to go and lose in his very next fight to say...Zab Judah (a could-have-been-great fighter).
I don't really dislike Tarver as much as B-Hop anyway.
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(17 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 14, 2009 5:38 PM
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"Mzembe - Lets be clear. I despise Tarver. Cant stand his mouth. But after the KO Roy he came back and beat him by decision. He also got a win over Johnson and those were the two top guys at the time."
Umm, yes, he got a win, but he also ducked Glen Johnson on the 3rd deciding fight. Why didn't he have a 2nd fight with Hopkins? oh, I forgot, he got executionized.....NEW WORD!!!
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 13, 2009 10:49 PM
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Mzembe - Lets be clear. I despise Tarver. Cant stand his mouth. But after the KO Roy he came back and beat him by decision. He also got a win over Johnson and those were the two top guys at the time.
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 13, 2009 10:27 PM
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> > guy is considered great and Calzaghe (who pretty
> much
> > unified the 168Ibs) is not is beyond logic.
> > Just sayin......
>
> Just sayin theres other fighters out there making
> their careers fighting smaller guys too. At least
> Bernard was able to move up in weight and beat a top
> tier opponent. Tarver was a pretty legit LHW. His
> thrashing of Winky and Pavlik are also pretty good
> wins.
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Tarver is NEVER a top tier opponent. He has done virtually nothing after his one punch KO of Roy. He's still basking in that glory.
Winky was a small guy going up to fight B-Hop and was NOT thrashed by Hopkins. That was an ugly fight with the usual dirty tactics from Hopkins.
Pavlik was and is not a great fighter and B-Hop knew that and exposed it. Guarantee you this, P Williams will beat Pavlik the exact same way B-Hop beat him.
B-Hop is nothing but a joke and carefully side stepped risky opponents (he refused to fight Roy in 2001 or 2002 but now he is ok with it cuz he sees no risk). He fought Calzaghe cuz he knew Calzaghe can NOT punch, hence no risk. Why can't he fight Chad Dawson?
Look at his list of opponents prior to Tito and mention a great fighter. Tito and Oscar pretty much gave him the leverage he is using now other than that there is nothing impressive about him.
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Edited by Mzembe at 10/13/2009 7:29 PM PDT
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 11, 2009 10:37 PM
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> > I reckon there is about a 15% chance that Jones
> will
> > lose to Green, and about a 2% chance Hopkins
> will
> > lose to Ornelas. Therefore about a .003% chance
> that
> > both will lose and about a .000001% chance that
> > Jones-Hopkins II doesn't end up happening. 
> ------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------
> Nice Math. Hopkins-Jones II should NOT happen and if
> it means one of them losing (Jones) then so be it.
> Roy beat Hopkins once and that's enough for history.
> B-Hop is a bum who has crafted a great career beating
> smaller (and more famous guys) than he is and is
> considered a great middle weight by historians which
> in itself is an asinine thought.
>
> Take out Tito and Oscar (his biggest bargaining chip
> into any fight after and his ride to Canastota), the
> guy had a record against bums and unknown. How this
> guy is considered great and Calzaghe (who pretty much
> unified the 168Ibs) is not is beyond logic.
> Just sayin......
Just sayin theres other fighters out there making their careers fighting smaller guys too. At least Bernard was able to move up in weight and beat a top tier opponent. Tarver was a pretty legit LHW. His thrashing of Winky and Pavlik are also pretty good wins.
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Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 11, 2009 4:03 PM
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Just sayin......
--
Edited by Mzembe at 10/11/2009 1:04 PM PDT
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(12 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 11, 2009 4:03 PM
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> I reckon there is about a 15% chance that Jones will
> lose to Green, and about a 2% chance Hopkins will
> lose to Ornelas. Therefore about a .003% chance that
> both will lose and about a .000001% chance that
> Jones-Hopkins II doesn't end up happening.
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Nice Math. Hopkins-Jones II should NOT happen and if it means one of them losing (Jones) then so be it.
Roy beat Hopkins once and that's enough for history. B-Hop is a bum who has crafted a great career beating smaller (and more famous guys) than he is and is considered a great middle weight by historians which in itself is an asinine thought.
Take out Tito and Oscar (his biggest bargaining chip into any fight after and his ride to Canastota), the guy had a record against bums and unknown. How this guy is considered great and Calzaghe (who pretty much unified the 168Ibs) is not is beyond logic.
Just sayin......
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(11 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 11, 2009 2:09 PM
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I think it'll happen unless Jones comes up short-cause 1 would think he's over lookn Danny Green which could be a big mistake. Unlike Lacy-the Green machine has stamina 4 dayz-so I hear. I can't even really talk about this fight-u know what-I'm going 2 UTUBE-I'm checkn out 1 of Danny's old fights
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(10 of 24)
Re: What are the chances that Jones or Hopkins lose their next fights?
Oct 11, 2009 2:03 AM
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> I reckon there is about a 15% chance that Jones will
> lose to Green, and about a 2% chance Hopkins will
> lose to Ornelas. Therefore about a .003% chance that
> both will lose and about a .000001% chance that
> Jones-Hopkins II doesn't end up happening.
We might have to start calling you, professor.
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