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NOTE; This is a sad day. May God rest the soul of Alexis Arguello. THE GREAT ARGUELLO ; On November 18, 1921 Johnny Dundee won on a fifth round disqualification over George " KO " Chaney to become the first recognized champion of the junior lightweight division.He would lose and then regain the title in a pair of 1923 fifteen rounders against Jack Bernstein. Dundee would lose the title for good in 1924 via a ten round points loss to Steve " Kid " Sullivan. In 1925 Sullivan would lose the title to Mike Ballerino. Later that year Ballerino would be stopped by Tod Morgan. Morgan would reign for four years before he was halted in two rounds by Benny Bass. In the summer of 1931 Bass would lose the title to the talented Kid Chocolate.In 1933 Frankie Klick stopped the " Kid ". It would be sixteen years before the title would resurface again. On December 6, 1949 in the grand city of Cleveland, Ohio the great Sandy Saddler outscored the slick Orlando Zulueta for the " vacant " title. It would be nearly a decade before a fight for the " vacant " title would take place. On July 20, 1959 Harold Gomes outscored Paul Jorgensen ane the 130 pound division has been with us ever since. Gomes would lose the title in 1960 to a wonderful fighting machine from the Philippines named Flash Elorde. Flash would go on to establish himself as one of the best little fighters of that time period. Elorde would finally lose the title in 1967 to Japan's Yoshiaki Numata. Later that year Numata would surrender the title to fellow countryman Hiroshi Kobayashi. A little over a year later the fledging World Boxing Council decided that they would recognize the winner of a bout between Rene Barrientos and the dangerous Ruben Navarro which was won by Barrientos. In 1970 Numata would " regain " the crown with a points win over Barrientos. Over a year later Kobayashi would lose the " real " title to rugged Alfredo Marcano. A few months later Numata would be dethroned by Ricardo Arrendondo. To try to keep up the the exchanging of belts between the WBA, WBC and later IBF would be a waste of space. The division was graced by some fine fighters. There was the power punching Ben Villaflor, the slick stylist Sammy Serrano and the great Alfredo Escalera.On January 28, 1978 the game Escalera would relinquish his title to possibly the greatest 130 pounder of all time. The " Explosive Thin Man " himself; Alexis Arguello. Why is Arguello a good choice as the best 130 pounder ever ? Rafael " Bazooka " Limon, Boza Edwards, Rolando Navarette and Bobby Chacon were all defeated by Alexis while he held the crown.All four would gain title recognition after Alexis moved up go after the lightweight title.That is how dominant Alexis was at 130. The 1980's produced some fine titleholders such as Roger Mayweather, Hector Camacho, Julio Cesar Chavez, Rocky Lockridge, Azumah Nelson, Brian Mitchell and the popular Tony " Tiger " Lopez. The 1990's gave us Genero Hernandez, Gabe Ruelas, Jesse James Leija, Arturo Gatti, Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Diego Corrales. The new millinium has produced Acelino Frietas and Joel Casamayor for starters. Still no one with the possible exception of Flash Elorde dominated the weight class like Alexis Arguello, the greatest junior lightweight of all time ! -- "Talk softly but carry a big stick".
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(44 of 44)
Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 3, 2009 8:22 AM
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> On the day an all time great passes some can still > only talk about Floyd Mayweather. Shame on That's the problem: There's no shame there. Only sickness. -- "May we never condemn in a brother, what we would pardon in ourselves..."
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 10:50 PM
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> Arguello is the best 130 lber ever by virtue of > defeating more of his contemporary greats or really > good opponents than any other 130lber. There it is. -- "Never Die, Never Quit, Never Retreat"
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 10:34 PM
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On the day an all time great passes some can still only talk about Floyd Mayweather. Shame on you. -- Good people drink good beer. -Hunter S. Thompson If you give a monkey control of his environment he will fill the world with Bananas - Doctor Who
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 6:45 PM
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And there inlies the problem If Floyd woulda went up 4 divisions and fought the best fighters of his division this discussion wouldn't even exist right now cause if Floyd had done that, you can add that feature to his already tremedous skillset and say that he's a better fighter at 130 or at any weight then Arguello. The truth is that Floyd took himself outta those kind of talks by cowering away from tough competiton. Arguello is far and above Floyd as far as ranking in boxing history goes in my opinion and its simply because unlike Floyd he's fought everyone that had a name at the time. Floyd did not.
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 6:29 PM
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Arguello is the best 130 lber ever by virtue of defeating more of his contemporary greats or really good opponents than any other 130lber. -- Good people drink good beer. -Hunter S. Thompson If you give a monkey control of his environment he will fill the world with Bananas - Doctor Who
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 1:46 PM
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Yeah Boza Edwards and Boom Boom were at lightweight and he was still punching guys out there too. I remember kickin' back and watching both. I always made it a point to watch Arguello. Hey watch this at 0:58 sec KELLY PAVLICK They call those left hooks. ("Marciano" the guy says he likes) -- RIP Alexis Arguello -- Edited by JimEarl at 07/02/2009 12:34 PM PDT
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 1:34 PM
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Bazooka, Boza, Navarette, & Chacon.....what incredible fights they had amongst each other! Only Chacon & Navartette never squared off against each other.
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 1:31 PM
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Well Floyd and Alexis both had eight defenses at 130 but look at these defenses (this is after four defenses of his featherweight title that he won from Ruben Olivares) Alfredo Escalera (who he took that title from) Bobby Chacon Ruben Castillo Rafael Limon Rolando Navarrete These were some serious fighters in the day. Forget the spotty records here because they all made the rounds and fought everybody else. Man Bobby Chacon KO'd my man "Li'l Red" Lopez and damn near retired him before he won a title. -- RIP Alexis Arguello
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 1:28 PM
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> Genaro Hernandez is an under-rated fighter, imo. > and a lot like Arguello. You can tell that Genaro > watched Alexis because he fought a lot like him. > And he only lost to De La Hoya and Floyd Jr. > > Another fight on my now defunct youtube site. > Floyd picked Genaro apart. > > -- > http://therealnews.com/t/ > http://english.aljazeera.net/ And he did it in his 17th pro fight or so.
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 1:07 PM
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.......i meant hard for me to pick against Floyd
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 12:58 PM
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> > Your right. Money just hasn't had the same level of > fighters competing in his era. He cleaned out 130. > He beat Castillo, who was a P4P elite and lineal > l champ at lightweight. He beat hatton who was a P4P > elite and lineal champ at 140. He beat Badlomir who > was lineal champ at welterweight. He's basically > beaten the top guy is every division, when he fought > them. But, he just doesn't have the caliber of > fighters that Arguello did back then. He's got guys > now like Pacquaio and Marquez, who can make his > resume look better. And when he's done with that, he > could fight who's ever left standing at welterweight. > But no matter what he does, I don't think his resume > e will ever stack up to the fighters who fought in > the 70s and 80s. Genaro Hernandez is an under-rated fighter, imo. and a lot like Arguello. You can tell that Genaro watched Alexis because he fought a lot like him. And he only lost to De La Hoya and Floyd Jr. Another fight on my now defunct youtube site. Floyd picked Genaro apart. -- http://therealnews.com/t/ http://english.aljazeera.net/
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 12:54 PM
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Arguello was nearly unbeatable at 130. There was no Aaron Pryor in that division. his trouble came as he moved up and fought bigger guys who couldtake his punch. he seemed to need to overwhelm his opponent to be satisfied. He left himself open a lot. I would take Floyd in that fight. The style fits Floyd better but Alexis was an elite fighter and person. -- "Every man has the right to his own opinion, but no man has the right to be wrong in his facts." Unknown
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 12:54 PM
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> that's a near miss king. it's more like a hagler-roy > jones thing. hagler trashed everyone around for > years so he'd easily rate above jones but i cant > hardly fathom anyone dealing with jones speed and > reflexes at 160. the calzaghe thing is close but him > being a slapper, you gotta deduct some points you > know? i mean i give calzaghe credit for being the > dominant champ at 168 but i got no use for a slapper > in these kinda comparisons. Say what you want about Joe C. But he was the class of the super middleweight division for a decade. And he fought and beat everyone there was to beat with the exception of Sven Ottke. Joe C's run at super middle was just as impressive as RJ's at light heavy in my opinion.
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 12:50 PM
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> But you don't mind catchweight.....Have you thought > that through? > > I guess as a promotional thing I thought it OK at > the time because it made for more championship > fights but then we only had two sanctioning bodies > that anybody payed attention to then.....and we > weren't all that sure about the WBA at first. I > always thought the WBA was a South American boxing > political thing for awhile because that's who had a > lot of their titles for awhile. > > But I draw the line at catchweight fights. That's > so you can fight the high dollar fights with someone > > w/o being accused of ducking everybody in a division > who wants a payday and probably deserves one. > > A modern day mega-payday hoarding trick....that's > what. > > -- > http://therealnews.com/t/ > http://english.aljazeera.net/ > > -- > Edited by JimEarl at 07/02/2009 9:48 AM PDT If there weren't so many divisions, there wouldn't be a need for catchweight fights. If you eliminate the super/junior divisions, the talest in each division would be deep enough where you could make superfights within divisions, instead of guys having to go outside divisions to get big fights.
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Re: WHY ALEXIS ARGUELLO WAS THE GREATEST 130 POUNDER EVER...
Jul 2, 2009 12:47 PM
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> > better. Is this kinda how Money and Arguello > are? > > Lol Hit > What I'm trying to say is that Arguello fought > everybody in very hot divisions.....hotter than > Floyd fought in, imo. > > But Floyd would have the skills to beat Arguello, > imo. > > Now Duran at 135. I read a boxing rumor in one of > the many boxing mags around about Ray Arcel, trainer > > of the likes of Benny Leonard, Ezzard Charles and > came out of retirement to bring Duran to MSG in NYC. > > Anyway I heard that Arcel had a look at Arguello > and didn't like that fight for Duran at 135 so he > made the call to move up in weight....because he > didn't like Duran in with tall power > punchers.....just > a rumor though. > > I can kind of see that thinking though. > > -- > http://therealnews.com/t/ > http://english.aljazeera.net/ Your right. Money just hasn't had the same level of fighters competing in his era. He cleaned out 130. He beat Castillo, who was a P4P elite and lineal champ at lightweight. He beat hatton who was a P4P elite and lineal champ at 140. He beat Badlomir who was lineal champ at welterweight. He's basically beaten the top guy is every division, when he fought them. But, he just doesn't have the caliber of fighters that Arguello did back then. He's got guys now like Pacquaio and Marquez, who can make his resume look better. And when he's done with that, he could fight who's ever left standing at welterweight. But no matter what he does, I don't think his resume will ever stack up to the fighters who fought in the 70s and 80s.
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