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Which of the two do you think, gives him a bigger winning chance? A) Be the agressor, plodding forward, throwing his bodypunches trying to break Manny down B) Counterpunching approach. Take what he learned from the JMM/Pacquiao fights and apply it, moving around waiting for the counter (I.E. he did some of that vs Mosley) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg7CIhO2GkQ -- Edited by CroatianSensation at 10/25/2009 3:01 PM PDT
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 1:52 PM
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Yea i hear you and i agree that its the promoter that wrks for the fighter... but then again i never heard cotto say he didnt wanna fight any of those guys... but i did see bob arum on tv saying that cotto was too green to fight floyd. even with that cotto should have been fighting at welterweight anyways. i dont think he has ducked anyone @ 147 though.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 1:48 PM
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> Dont hate Cotto for that Hitking... hate Bob Arum, i
> dont think Cotto personally was ducking anybody..
> seems like he does whatever Mr Arum tells him to do.
As I've stated before, the promotor works for the fighter, not visa versa. If Cotto wanted to fight Hatton or Mayweather, all he had to do was say so. I never heard him or Hatton mention each other, so I don't hold that one as much against Cotto. But, the fact is Hatton was the champ. It wasn't up to him to seek out a contedner, the contender needs to seek out the champ. As for Mayweather, there's no excuse for what happen there. After Mayweather destroyed Gatti, he and Cotto were the #1 and #2 contenders to Hatton's title, and both were paper belt holders. That fight should have happen and didn't becasue Cotto didn't want it. Its a major blackeye on his resume.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 1:34 PM
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> > The weight excuse is simply that, an excuse.
> During
> > that time, Floyd and Hatton were viewed as the
> top
> > 140lb fighters........... Cotto never called out
> or
> > attempted to make a fight with either one.
> >
> > Truth is, Cotto's team knew Cotto was too green
> and
> > would have took a Gatti-type beating from Floyd.
> As
> > for Hatton, my best guess is, they felt Cotto
> wasn't
> > ready, and wanted to bring Cotto along
> slower........
>
> Team Cotto wanted to bring him along slowly, but they
> had no problem promoting him as a world champion.
> His 140 campaign was one of the biggest jokes I've
> e seen since I've been watching boxing. It probably
> has a lot to do with why I'm so critical of him now.
Dont hate Cotto for that Hitking... hate Bob Arum, i dont think Cotto personally was ducking anybody.. seems like he does whatever Mr Arum tells him to do.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 12:56 PM
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Team Cotto wanted to bring him along slowly, but they had no problem promoting him as a world champion. His 140 campaign was one of the biggest jokes I've seen since I've been watching boxing. It probably has a lot to do with why I'm so critical of him now.
Cotto was a 140lb champion, and I think most agree that he was 3rd best, after Hatton and Floyd at the time............ I wouldn't call his 140lb campaign one of the biggest jokes; he fought very good fighters south of himself; but just never fought the top 2 dogs.
Nothing wrong with moving your fighter along slowly, especially when you know he's not ready.........
Gotta run, talk later
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 12:51 PM
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> The weight excuse is simply that, an excuse. During
> that time, Floyd and Hatton were viewed as the top
> 140lb fighters........... Cotto never called out or
> attempted to make a fight with either one.
>
> Truth is, Cotto's team knew Cotto was too green and
> would have took a Gatti-type beating from Floyd. As
> for Hatton, my best guess is, they felt Cotto wasn't
> ready, and wanted to bring Cotto along slower........
Team Cotto wanted to bring him along slowly, but they had no problem promoting him as a world champion. His 140 campaign was one of the biggest jokes I've seen since I've been watching boxing. It probably has a lot to do with why I'm so critical of him now.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 12:36 PM
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6, what's amazing to me is that most Mayweather bashers and/or Cotto supporters say that he didn't fight Mayweather at 140 becasue he was starving himself to make weight. If you go back and look at the timeline, he fought Branco and Malignaggi at 140 after Mayweather had left the division. Hatton fought Collazo, and then it was expected that he would stay at welter, a month before Cotto fought Malignaggi. So the excuse of Cotto not being able to make weight is a bullsh*t excuse because Cotto was comfortable to fight lesser fighters at 140. The weight only became an issue when it was time for him to fight the top guys in the division.
The weight excuse is simply that, an excuse. During that time, Floyd and Hatton were viewed as the top 140lb fighters........... Cotto never called out or attempted to make a fight with either one.
Truth is, Cotto's team knew Cotto was too green and would have took a Gatti-type beating from Floyd. As for Hatton, my best guess is, they felt Cotto wasn't ready, and wanted to bring Cotto along slower........
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 11:01 AM
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> Hit, the second paragraph was intended to show my
> opinion of why Floyd avoided fighting AM. I have no
> doubt that he knows he'd smoke the dude.
>
> In terms of entertainment value, I can't compare
> Cotto/AM or Mosley/AM with Floyd/Baldomir. Floyd was
> highly competent, but highly boring in that fight.
> And before that earns me another hate badge, Wlad
> d Klitschko was highly competent and highly boring vs
> both Ibragimov and Chagaev.
I talk to you often, and don't consider you a hater. Dingo is a hater. TJoe is a hater. Riky is a hater. I think you're more of a critic. That being said, I think the the notion that Mayweather "avoided" a fight with Margarito si nonsense. When Mayweather hit the division, Margarito was in rebuild mode. Its been said, mostly by the haters, that Mayweather ducked Margarito for so long that people actually believe it. The fact is, Margarito was coming off a loss to Santos, and only had wins over Lujan, Gomez, and an untested Cintron when Money hit the division. Mayweather-Judah was the fight everyone wanted to see and Baldomir was the universally recognized champ. He fought the fights he was supposed to fight when he hit welter.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:44 AM
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> Neut, I didn't find anything wrong with the
> statement. But, one could take it as a backhanded
> compliment. For example, most fight fans asume that
> Mayweather would be on his bicycle in a fight with
> Margarito and it probably wouldn't bevery
> entertaining. But, Cotto was also on his bicycle the
> entire fight with Margarito and people called it a
> classic. Mosley hit and held the entire fight with
> Margarito and the only thing entertaining in that
> fight was seeing the Tijuana Mullet getting his ass
> pounded. But no one called that boring. When
> someone isn't a Mayweather backer, they seem to only
> be able to give him backhanded compliments.
> Basically, I understood where you were going. But,
> , the second paragraph had nothing to do with the
> discussion. Therefore, one could take it as a bit of
> hatery there.
Hit, the second paragraph was intended to show my opinion of why Floyd avoided fighting AM. I have no doubt that he knows he'd smoke the dude.
In terms of entertainment value, I can't compare Cotto/AM or Mosley/AM with Floyd/Baldomir. Floyd was highly competent, but highly boring in that fight. And before that earns me another hate badge, Wlad Klitschko was highly competent and highly boring vs both Ibragimov and Chagaev.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:39 AM
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> See Neut...
>
> I've noticed that alot of Mayweather's detractors ,
> LOVE to envision him in some kind of pain or agony
> somehow.
>
> Whether it be mental anguish...financial
> woes...lowering of his 'ego'....whatever it may be:
> They love to bring up some shortcoming of some
> kind, because there really isn't too much they can
> say about him professionally , that'll hold
> water.
>
> Case in point -
> > No matter what your record looks like, it
> > doesn't help your ego to hear boos and see people
> > walking out while your entertaining
> > them.:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
>
> Just my opinion and observation Broham....I'm not
> holding anything against you. 
Duely noted...
Please don't make me add a "Floyd is great even if I don't love him" signature to all my posts. 
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:37 AM
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&> Hit, I'm with you. No argument, but can you tell me
> where I have some underlying hate or how I sold Floyd
> short in the following statement:
>
> >::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::I've always
> > maintained that Floyd would have boxed circles
> around
> > AM in a 12-0 shutout, but it mosdef would not have
>
> > been easy - he'd have been on his bike like never
> > before and made the Baldomir fight look
> "toe-to-toe".
> > So, yes he would have gotten a good win for the
> > money, but in the end the win would have probably
> > earned him more criticism than praise.
> >
> > No matter what your record looks like, it
> > doesn't help your ego to hear boos and see people
> > walking out while your entertaining
> > them.:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Neut, I didn't find anything wrong with the statement. But, one could take it as a backhanded compliment. For example, most fight fans asume that Mayweather would be on his bicycle in a fight with Margarito and it probably wouldn't bevery entertaining. But, Cotto was also on his bicycle the entire fight with Margarito and people called it a classic. Mosley hit and held the entire fight with Margarito and the only thing entertaining in that fight was seeing the Tijuana Mullet getting his ass pounded. But no one called that boring. When someone isn't a Mayweather backer, they seem to only be able to give him backhanded compliments. Basically, I understood where you were going. But, the second paragraph had nothing to do with the discussion. Therefore, one could take it as a bit of hatery there.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:36 AM
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To translate my post and hopefully avoid further insinuation that I am harboring some deep-seated hatred of Floyd:
When Floyd fought Baldomir, he won every round (as I told CT I thought he would on the phone before the fight). It was an excellent display of boxing, BUT people were booing and walking out. It had to deflate his ego some, IMO.
I believe Floyd would have done as well against Margarito, but he probably would have done even more to piss fans off and I believe that was among the bigger reasons he avoided a fight with AM. People went on and on about his avoidance of AM being out of his fear of losing. I rejected it. I think it was his fear of ego bruising.
How is that anything other than a basic post? There is really some hyper-sensitivity when it comes to my posts regarding Floyd.
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:32 AM
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See Neut...
I've noticed that alot of Mayweather's detractors , LOVE to envision him in some kind of pain or agony somehow.
Whether it be mental anguish...financial woes...lowering of his 'ego'....whatever it may be: They love to bring up some shortcoming of some kind, because there really isn't too much they can say about him professionally , that'll hold water.
Case in point -
> No matter what your record looks like, it
> doesn't help your ego to hear boos and see people
> walking out while your entertaining
> them.:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Just my opinion and observation Broham....I'm not holding anything against you.
--
Edited by GoldenGluvs at 11/11/2009 7:32 AM PST
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:29 AM
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> > There is nothing underlying.
>
> Then why does it seem so difficult for you, to
> comment on the man's professional accomplishments (or
> lack thereof), without bringing some abstract ,
> non-related , personal issue of his into it ?
What non-related, personal issue did I bring up? This is what I posted:
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::I've always
> maintained that Floyd would have boxed circles around
> AM in a 12-0 shutout, but it mosdef would not have
> been easy - he'd have been on his bike like never
> before and made the Baldomir fight look "toe-to-toe".
> So, yes he would have gotten a good win for the
> money, but in the end the win would have probably
> earned him more criticism than praise.
>
> No matter what your record looks like, it
> doesn't help your ego to hear boos and see people
> walking out while your entertaining
> them.:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:28 AM
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> > UGH... I've said he's the best. What is full
> props?
> > "He's the best and I love him oh so much. All
> women
> > n should want to have his babies. He is sooooo
> cute.
> > Lets worship the ground he walks on! Let's
> declare
> > e Floyd day! Every DAY!!!!"
> >
> > WTF people? You love him and you want people to
> love
> > him. He's that good a boxer, but he's not that
> good
> > a person. Get over it.
>
> Neut, you know where I stand on the Mayweather
> debate. And he's the best fighter I've seen. That
> being said, I find his "Money" Mayweather persona
> very annoying. But, I don't see what one has to do
> with the other. Actually, very few of us have
> actually met any of these fighters. And less than
> that knows these guys personally. The fighter who
> you think is the biggest assh*le would be the best
> guy in the world in his personal life and visa versa.
Hit, I'm with you. No argument, but can you tell me where I have some underlying hate or how I sold Floyd short in the following statement:
>::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::I've always
> maintained that Floyd would have boxed circles around
> AM in a 12-0 shutout, but it mosdef would not have
> been easy - he'd have been on his bike like never
> before and made the Baldomir fight look "toe-to-toe".
> So, yes he would have gotten a good win for the
> money, but in the end the win would have probably
> earned him more criticism than praise.
>
> No matter what your record looks like, it
> doesn't help your ego to hear boos and see people
> walking out while your entertaining
> them.:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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Re: Which of the two gameplans should Cotto apply against Pacquiao?
Nov 11, 2009 10:27 AM
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> There is nothing underlying.
Then why does it seem so difficult for you, to comment on the man's professional accomplishments (or lack thereof), without bringing some abstract , non-related , personal issue of his into it ?
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