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(94 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 3:16 PM
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Not to compare, but Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Hagler, Benitez ... ummmmm ...
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(93 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 3:07 PM
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> If Margarito WAS swinging concrete around all night,
> then the fact that he was looking as fresh as he was
> at the final bell is MORE impressive not less.
>
> Again you are shifting the goal posts. Before it was
> "Who won the fight?" Now you are saying "Margarito
> may have cheated"....NONE of these defenses detracts
> from the fact that Margarito went 12 rounds with an
> opponent known for a high workrate (as the punchstats
> show this fight was no exception) and was keeping up
> with him, although in a losing effort.
>
> From that, we can draw the conclusion that Margarito
> has exceptional stamina as was also on display again
> when he beat Cotto.
>
> Therefore the fact that Mosely went through him like
> a hot knife through butter.....says positive about
> Mosely. PERIOD.
>
> Are there any more hairs we need to split here? Can
> we all agree that Mosely's stamina despite his age
> seems to be quite good?
Fudo, I've simply been trying to say I'm not really impressedwith any of these guys, talking about Mosley, Cotto, and Margarito. None of them have stepped outside the box and beat anyone. They're all basically living off beating each other. I would love to see them beat another top fighter. Cotto has his chance in a couple weeks. But I doubt seriously that he's gonna succeed.
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(92 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 2:54 PM
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> > Hit, Quintana timed and countered him and picked
> him
> > apart. It was an excellent win, but the
> noteable
> > thing about AM is that he was OUTWORKING P-Dub
> down
> > the stretch. Who else could outwork P-Dub?
>
> Every fight is different neut. There's no way of
> knowing what Dub's preparation will be for a given
> fight. There's no way of knowing how he will react
> to an opponents punch. And in the Margarito fight,
> there's no way to know that Dub didn't wear down due
> to being hit with concrete all night. I've never
> thought Cotto had stamina problems. But, he became
> fatigued in the fight with Margarito. And knowing
> what we know now about Margarito, it makes sense.
> I've seen Mosley fade before, but he didn't against
> t Margarito.
If Margarito WAS swinging concrete around all night, then the fact that he was looking as fresh as he was at the final bell is MORE impressive not less.
Again you are shifting the goal posts. Before it was "Who won the fight?" Now you are saying "Margarito may have cheated"....NONE of these defenses detracts from the fact that Margarito went 12 rounds with an opponent known for a high workrate (as the punchstats show this fight was no exception) and was keeping up with him, although in a losing effort.
From that, we can draw the conclusion that Margarito has exceptional stamina as was also on display again when he beat Cotto.
Therefore the fact that Mosely went through him like a hot knife through butter.....says positive about Mosely. PERIOD.
Are there any more hairs we need to split here? Can we all agree that Mosely's stamina despite his age seems to be quite good?
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Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 2:47 PM
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> The Vernon Forrest who beat Mosley gives hell to any
> top welter today including Floyd.
>
> Mosley's record is less than stellar because he went
> after guys like Vernon and Winky Wright when most
> would have avoided them. He also seemed to suffer
> some physical detriment from the whole Balco
> disaster.
>
> Since his apparent recovery, he's been on a good tear
> - especially for someone pushing 40 at welter.
Its hard for me to agree with you on that on Neut. As I remember it, Mosley losing to Forrest turned the welterweight title into a merry-go-round of mediocrity. No one was able to establish himself as anything more that a flash-in-the-pan, and that is still holding true today. Forrest beat Mosley, then tunred right around and lost to Mayorga. Mayorga proceeded to turn right around and lose to Spinks. Spinks turned right around and loss to Judah. And Judah proceeded to lose in his second defense to Baldomir. Then, Mayweather took the title from Baldomir and never defended it before vacating it. And now, you have the whole Mosley, Cotto, Margarito triangle. IMO, the division has been very average for a long time.
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(90 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 2:26 PM
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Hit, as Ron Burgundy would say, "Agree to disagree" ... although I think I have a better handle on the origin of the name San Diego in this case.
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(89 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 2:17 PM
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The Vernon Forrest who beat Mosley gives hell to any top welter today including Floyd.
Mosley's record is less than stellar because he went after guys like Vernon and Winky Wright when most would have avoided them. He also seemed to suffer some physical detriment from the whole Balco disaster.
Since his apparent recovery, he's been on a good tear - especially for someone pushing 40 at welter.
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Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 1:36 PM
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> Since you like the Ring Ratings, I will offer that
> Mosley beat the #8 guy, is the only guy who has ever
> stopped the #5 guy and lost a fight to the #3 guy
> that could have been called a draw without any real
> controversy. So the credentials against today's top
> 147s are pretty strong, at least as strong as the
> current #2 welterweight.
>
> That you consider Cotto (who has done nothing but
> line up top guy after top guy since his arrival at
> 147) and Margarito bums does not detract from them
> being elite 147s. Who else in the weight class
> deserves the acclaim? A top 154/160 in Paul
> Williams?
>
> I am not comparing this Mosley to the 2000-2003
> vintage. But to not think he deserves a seat at the
> P4P grownups table (let alone the welterweight one)
> is kind of amazing. I am not sure if your standards
> are impossibly high or simply arbitrary.
>
> Berto is an excellent opponent for Mosley, but Mosley
> has been facing Berto or better caliber opposition
> for years and years. Mosley is already where Berto
> wants to be, and Berto has a decent chance to prove
> he belongs.
>
> --
> Edited by sk7326 at 10/29/2009 10:12 AM PDT
I don't care nearly as much about ratings as I do about records. As I've said, The Klitschkos have lined top guy after top guy, and no one is talkign about they're elite fighters.
I don't care who rates who where, there's no one to butter up the fact that Mosley's record has been average at best since 2002. He's 8-5 with a NC since 2002. And of that 8, that includes a gift decision against de la Hoya. His best wins are Collazo and Margarito. With the facts on the table, you'll sit and tell me that this is the record of a P4P elite.
As for Cotto, everyone he's fought with the exception of Clottey and Quintana, has been considered on the way down when he fought them. Judah hadn't won a fight in the two years prior to fighting Cotto. Mosley came into his fight with Cotto 7-4 with a NC and controversal decision over de la Hoya in his previous 12. Margarito was coming off the lost to Williams. As for Clottey, who has he beaten? Quintana has the one win over Dub, and proceeded to get KTFO in the first round in the rematch. For that matter, who has Margarito beaten besides Cotto? How people say this cat has this muderer's row of opponents is mind boggling to me.
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(87 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 1:16 PM
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I think Margarito is getting a bum rap. I think he used the cement with Mosely. Shane never had a history of being hurt and I think AM wanted to make a statment. The first to KO Mosely. Cotto had been hurt in several fights and cut before. His beating was not inprecedented since he has struggled at 147. AM is not getting credit for being tough enough to survive the storm and turn the tide. Cotto wasted too much energy imitating Ray Leonard when he could have used his jab and tied his man up. A great veteran fight from Shane.
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(86 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 1:10 PM
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> sk, who has Margarito beaten? Mosley, Cotto, and
> Margarito are simply wrapped in a triangle of
> mediocrity. As I keep going back to. They are the
> leaders of the "Please Kick Floyd Mayweather's Ass"
> campaign that's going on right now.
>
> No matter how many times people want to bring up the
> Margarito fight, or any other win Mosley has had over
> B and C level competition. He has had a very average
> run, at best, since Forrest beat him in 2002. Yeah,
> he's a top welterweight. But IMO, the welterweight
> division has grown into the most overrated division
> in the sport.
Since you like the Ring Ratings, I will offer that Mosley beat the #8 guy, is the only guy who has ever stopped the #5 guy and lost a fight to the #3 guy that could have been called a draw without any real controversy. So the credentials against today's top 147s are pretty strong, at least as strong as the current #2 welterweight.
That you consider Cotto (who has done nothing but line up top guy after top guy since his arrival at 147) and Margarito bums does not detract from them being elite 147s. Who else in the weight class deserves the acclaim? A top 154/160 in Paul Williams?
I am not comparing this Mosley to the 2000-2003 vintage. But to not think he deserves a seat at the P4P grownups table (let alone the welterweight one) is kind of amazing. I am not sure if your standards are impossibly high or simply arbitrary.
Berto is an excellent opponent for Mosley, but Mosley has been facing Berto or better caliber opposition for years and years. Mosley is already where Berto wants to be, and Berto has a decent chance to prove he belongs.
--
Edited by sk7326 at 10/29/2009 10:12 AM PDT
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(85 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 1:00 PM
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> > hit...
> >
> > PW got hit more by AM than anyone before or
> since.
> > . That is why his stamina was more of an issue
> in
> > that fight.
> >
> > PW was getting cracked in his face, alot. If
> loaded
> > d gloves can make your professionally
> conditioned
> > arms wear out from contact...where the hell was
> the
> > swelling on PW's face"
>
> Maybe Dub is a guy that doesn't swell easily. There
> have been many fighters in history like that.
There is a far lesser history of guys who take punches better to their faces/heads than they do to their gloves and arms.
PW is very unique indeed.
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(84 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 12:56 PM
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> hit...
>
> PW got hit more by AM than anyone before or since.
> . That is why his stamina was more of an issue in
> that fight.
>
> PW was getting cracked in his face, alot. If loaded
> d gloves can make your professionally conditioned
> arms wear out from contact...where the hell was the
> swelling on PW's face"
Clottey managed to survive the plaster as well....tough customer.
Poor Golden Johnson...and Kermit.
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(83 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 12:48 PM
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> Hitking,
>
> I reviewed Margarito's past fights.......... I really
> doubt he used plaster against Williams. His corner
> takes off his gloves and wraps after the bout, unlike
> the Cotto fight, where he leaves the wraps
> on..............
That doesn't mean anything 6.
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(82 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 12:47 PM
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> hit...
>
> PW got hit more by AM than anyone before or since.
> . That is why his stamina was more of an issue in
> that fight.
>
> PW was getting cracked in his face, alot. If loaded
> d gloves can make your professionally conditioned
> arms wear out from contact...where the hell was the
> swelling on PW's face"
Maybe Dub is a guy that doesn't swell easily. There have been many fighters in history like that.
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2,107
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(81 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 12:27 PM
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Hitking,
I reviewed Margarito's past fights.......... I really doubt he used plaster against Williams. His corner takes off his gloves and wraps after the bout, unlike the Cotto fight, where he leaves the wraps on..............
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15,560
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(80 of 94)
Re: Hopkins: Mayweather/Mosley would be like the first Leonard/Hearns fight
Oct 29, 2009 12:27 PM
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hit...
PW got hit more by AM than anyone before or since. That is why his stamina was more of an issue in that fight.
PW was getting cracked in his face, alot. If loaded gloves can make your professionally conditioned arms wear out from contact...where the hell was the swelling on PW's face"
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