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This topic is locked - replies are not allowed.
Premieres Sunday, September 14 @ 9:30PM
Seen the Carnivale trailer? Intrigued? Talk to your fellow fans about what you think, what you've heard, what you expect.
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Posts:
12
Registered:
1/12/04
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(17420 of 17420)
Jul 3, 2004 2:00 PM
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This September??!!??
Please don't tease - it's just not right right to have a year between seasons!!
I can't wait for this show to start up again!
I've even cancelled HBO, with the intention to re-subscribe when it comes back on!!
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Posts:
2
Registered:
3/18/04
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(17419 of 17420)
Mar 18, 2004 8:01 PM
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I have sent e-mails even HBO themselves, and still no one knows when the next show starts. All I do know is that they will let everyone know when thay have a date for the next season- series 2. I thinking back last season started in September so most likely September this year. I can not wait, I LOVE THAT SHOW! I hope they will have at least the last show on before they start the new. Just to bring everyone uo to date, plus just in case we may have forgotten some important stuff, you got stay on top of this show--- you never what is going to happen.
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Posts:
3
Registered:
1/14/04
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(17418 of 17420)
Jan 14, 2004 1:48 PM
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I am so obsessed withg this show. I am going through carnie withdrawl. I feel this show really gets your mind working. i'd like to discuss this topic.
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Posts:
12
Registered:
1/12/04
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(17417 of 17420)
Jan 12, 2004 10:32 PM
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Ditto to this question. I've been trying to figure this out myself >> Anyone?
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Posts:
1
Registered:
12/22/03
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(17416 of 17420)
Dec 22, 2003 12:01 AM
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can someone tell me when the next show is??
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Posts:
2
Registered:
12/1/03
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(17415 of 17420)
Dec 1, 2003 9:39 PM
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friday the 13th 1307 the day that the knights templar were rounded up and massacred it was believed that they were the keepers the grail. what is this grail or vessel they had to buried and hide? some say it is the holy blood line of jesus. having been a man who with his love mary magdalene by his side spread a new avatar or view of the world. Perhaps ben is of this blood line perhaps management is the grand master of the templars or the modern priory of sion who wants to make sure the world does not find this descendant of christ.the world is not ready to or willing to know the TRUTH. the name sophia means WISDOM
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Posts:
1
Registered:
12/1/03
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(17414 of 17420)
Dec 1, 2003 5:55 PM
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Okay, here are some speculations I have.
The over all picture is obviously the conflict of good and evil. Not necessarily the way that typical people see good and evil. I think this is well established by using the priest (Brother Justin) as an evil incarnate.
Apprently this conflict has been going on for a very long time. Most likely since the begining of creation if you follow a religious stand point. I think the writers are using religious tones and symbols to illustrate how men have interacted in this conflict in the past. The very opening sequence shows us the conflict by displaying the card of light and dark on opposite sides of the title.
Okay so how does this play out? Let's look at the events in a more chronological stand point. The obvious would be with the Knights Templar. We're talking crusaders here, those who waged war in the name of God. Later we get glympses of what most assume to be WWI (and I tend to agree), this conflict was a generation before the events of the film. In these visions (because calling them dreams would be foolish) we see many possible or interpretive events. We see Bro. Justin and Ben in a diner. Sitting respectively behind them are Henry Scutter and a russian soldier. If you see the way they are framed in the shot both are sitting representatively behind Justin and Ben. This is important! Okay so let's introduce the concept of Avatar. There are at least 3 definitions of an avatar that I can think of. I think that the more contemporary definition is applicable here. Meaning a representative of something. I think they are trying to say that whenever there is a great conflict between good and evil (on the earth) that the conflict is played out with mankind and avatars are chosen (possibly by birthright). I believe taht during the time of WWI that Henry Scutter and the Russian were avatars of Good and Evil. I think Lodz was more of a interested and opprotunistic 3rd party. We see that Good won out in the last conflict (WWI) when sampson mentions taht "something bad happened in the old country". I think this could be understood as Scutter got the best of the russian soldier, whom he most likely caused to be dismembered as in Ben's dreams. After the conflict the evil incarnate (yes i'm suggesting that Scutter was/is the avatar for good during that generation) sought to hunt down and destroy Scutter. Scutter managed to disappear as the evil got on his trail and took over management of the carnival. I presume that management is that disfigured russian soldier that is the avatar for the force of evil.
I believe that Ben is Scutter's son and therefore holds the birthright as an avatar for good. This is evidence in his abilities and his conscious. We can argue that Ben has done inconsionable acts, however we are not talking about a mortal point of view of good and evil. We are talking about the very nature of good and evil.
I believe as has been suggested that Iris and Brother Justin are the children of that Russian soldier and also hold the birthright, well actually Justin holds the birthright of Avatar for evil, despite his desire to be good. Traditionally and scripturally the birthright is passed to the eldest son and therefore would not rest with Iris. I would not presume that justin and iris are the romanov children but who knows?
So, why is the time perioud of the show so significant? Well, as brother justin states we are on the countdown to armegeddon. The time period represented in this show is exactly prior to WWII one of the greatest conflicts known to man. Good and Evil have their avatars in place. This also happens to take place at the end of the age of wonder. The end of magic when man surrenders his sense of power to the sense of reason and science. Perhaps this is the last conflict where Good and Evil are capable of using the 'old powers' to sort out the conflict.
I think that Ruthie is a benign bystander who may have had a relationship with scutter. But I do not think her role in the whole thing is more significant than what we've seen so far. Lodz used Ben's feelings for her to manipulate him into using his power. I think that actually using his power was the prime motive. Management figures by getting to Ben first he can destroy the birthright, or better yet, control it and therefore win the conflict. Someone suggested earlier that management was satan or satan's tool, I think it could be an avatar or representative of satan, or evil. Sampson says that management is "a good man" but also says he "can't be trusted" and "doesn't care for anyone". Of course both of those descriptions come from Sampson being in different circumstances.
The site here suggests there's going to be a showdown between good and evil and insinuates it will come when Ben and Justin meet. These are the two avatars.
So how do all the others play into this? That's a good question. Is Sophie Ben's sister? Scutter seemed like he got around a lot, but doesn't seem like a rapist. Is she Lodz daughter? Possibly, but I think that sophie would have picked up on that. Maybe she's management's Daughter. The rape scene showed a man that wasn't apparently disfigured beyond his tattoo, so assuming managment is the russian soldier that was disfigured this could not be the case. One of the flashbacks showed the Knights Templar hunting the man with the tattoo of the tree. Perhaps the man was a previous avatar/incarnation of the russian soldier and Sophie saw him in that incarnation. Or perhaps the Templar knights were really on the evil side and the 'tree man' was a previous incarnation of scutter. We see in that vision that when the man falls (in the body of Ben) and he looks up it's scutter's face and he says "he's Mine!" but his eyes are black orbs like justin's were in episode 12. Is scutter a demon also? Maybe it's a conflict of evil vs. evil?
Okay i'm just rambling now, but it's nice to type things out and reason them in my head... I'll keep reading and studying the series to see if I can get some clues as to what's going on.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
11/20/03
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(17413 of 17420)
Re: Here's How to Prevent Your Posting From Going Poof !!!
Nov 23, 2003 5:56 PM
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> Here's How to Prevent Your Posting From Going Poof
]
without even charging you the customary $2
> Templar fee.
>
SOOO KIND!!
> An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of
> Cure
IT CERTIANLY WAS!
> Right There, I should have charged some of you
> $50 for that important lesson
YOUR PROBABLY RIGHT!
> BUT HERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH IT !!!
THERE CERTAINLY IS!
> Hope that's helpful,
IT WAS!
and I bet you my Templar's
> Ring, it is !!!
KEEP YOUR RING!!
> Bri
THANK YOU FOR THE HELP,
AND THE CHECK IS IN THE MAIL!!
S
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Posts:
3,598
Registered:
11/10/03
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(17412 of 17420)
Here's How to Prevent Your Posting From Going Poof !!!
Nov 22, 2003 5:08 AM
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Here's How to Prevent Your Posting From Going Poof !!!
If you're a regular Poster here, I bet you've written long Postings, or taken a long time writing Short Postings, and when you try to Post Message, or Spell Check, or Preview, only to have HBO request your ID and Password, and up providing that information to HBO, find you've lost your brilliant words to the Netherworld (that's an amusement park in Hell).
You might think it was the good Brother Justin, or perhaps that handsome devil Hack Scudder, the Gentleman Geek, who killed your words, but rest assured you can blame the inferior computer programming of HBO staff. Well I being a Gentleman Computer Geek, have decided to reveal some secrets of the trade. without even charging you the customary $2 Templar fee.
An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure
Before hitting the Preview / Spell Check / Post Message Buttons, do the following:
1) Place cursor in the Message Box
2) Type the following keys at same time: [CTRL][A]. This will SELECT ALL by highlighting the whole Text Box.
3) Be careful to hit no other key next except for following two keys [CTRL][C]. This will COPY the highlighted text to the copy / paste buffer, better known as the CLIPBOARD, where it will await retrieval.
4) If you later find you've lost your text, you can restore it by placing cursor in a Textbox and typing the two keys [CTRL][V], which will paste the text stored in the Clipboard.
5) The above technique can also be used in most other places, including such programs as WORD. Alternate to COPY, one can CUT Text by using the two keys [CTRL][X], which will remove the highlighted text from the Textbox, while placing a copy of it in the Clipboard for later pasting.
6) Alternate to selecting everything in a Textbox with SELECT ALL, you can highlight and SELECT a subset of text with usage of Mouse Pointer and / or Keyboard Cursor, using Mouse or Keyboard respectively. You can use the Mouse Cursor to SELECT, COPY, PASTE the text from anywhere on this or any Board and most Programs, and copy the text from one Board to another, or to another Program, or from another Program.
Right There, I should have charged some of you $50 for that important lesson
BUT HERE'S ANOTHER WAY TO DEAL WITH IT !!!
Let's say you typed, and then when you went to click the Preview / Spell Check / Post Message Buttons, only to have HBO request your ID and Password, and up providing that information to HBO, find you've lost your brilliant words to the netherworld. And lets say, you didn't first copy that text to the Clipboard:
1) Use the 'BACK' icon on the top of your Browser. You might have to do this several times in succession, until you get back to where your lost Textbox secretly remains. If you don't have a 'BACK' icon or menu choice on your browser, you can go backwards with [ALT][left arrow], or forwards with [ALT][right arrow] keys, where arrow keys are the CURSOR CONTROL keys of your keyboard.
2) Once you've refreshed your ID / PW info and clicked the continue button that appears, just repeatedly page backwards as described above, and if you page back too far, then page forwards.
3) In causing your Browser to go backwards to a previous view of its window, DO NOT redundantly entire the CONTINUE button, or repeatedly enter ID / PW info.
WELL CHILDREN, SHAKE THE DUST OFF YOUR KEYBOARDS, AND TRY THIS AS AN EXPERIMENT FIRST ON SOMETHING SHORT, AND PRINT THESE INSTRUCTIONS IN ADVANCE, SO YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING WHEN YOU NEED TO.
A handy shortcut is [CTRL][F] to find text on a Webpage or within a Textbox,
A handy shortcut is [F5] to Refresh a page.
I am now going to suggest there are some other handy dandy shortcut keys, you can look up in the Internet Explorer HELP.
Please note, that the fastest way to bring up a HELP FILE in most circumstances is simply typing the F1 key on the top of keyboard. Or you can use the MENU =to choose HELP.
Once HELP is open, choose the Index Tab, and enter words shortcut key, and this will lead you to other handy shortcut keys.
Perhaps even easier, is go to your Browser's Menu, and look at the choices there, and you will see, that in many instances, the Shortcut keys are written to the right of the Menu Choices.
Hope that's helpful, and I bet you my Templar's Ring, it is !!!
Bri
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Posts:
24
Registered:
10/5/03
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(17411 of 17420)
Nov 21, 2003 2:14 PM
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> Lodz:
> Lodz is the consummate sensualist. He probably knows
> more about sex than anyone on the show. He knows the
> location of every nerve in his partner's body, what
> it's for, and what its limits are.
> He's the most empathic character, as well. He
> He can't help it. Your emotions are his emotions,
> as soon as he touches you. Only a profound
> conviction that people will, sooner or later, screw
> you over, prevents him from falling in love with
> everyone he meets.
> This, along with a voice like a panther in heat,
> eat, a smile that would melt butter at 40 paces, and
> a touch that you just know is some combination of
> electricity and chinese silk, make him extremely
> attractive.
> Lodz has beautiful bone structure, and is
> surprisingly well-preserved, but with his other
> assets he could get away with being butt-ugly.
> He is also unconventional. He sets his
> s his boundaries to accommodate a very eccentric
> approach to life, and the combination of commitment,
> sexual freedom, and intellectual companionship is
> irresistible to a certain kind of unconventional,
> bohemian woman.
>
> The Lodz loving woman is artistic, sensual, and every
> bit as romantic and cynical as Lodz himself. She
> wants to lose herself completely in sex, as often as
> possible, for as long as possible, which is what that
> voice holds out the promise of. Lodz is aware that
> the mind is the chief erognous zone. The Lodz woman
> is aware of this, too, and uses this to her
> advantage, making even her partner's flaws into
> fetishes, eroticizing and appreciating every element
> of his character and his body. The Lodz woman is
> often older, a romantic cynic, highly experienced,
> and very educated, much like the Professor himself.
> She doesn't consider herself pretty, but expects a
> partner to re-invent her as beautiful in his mind,
> and will return the favor tenfold.
>
> T
Blessed Be. I'm a Lodz!
LT
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Posts:
439
Registered:
5/13/03
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(17410 of 17420)
Re: Attractive Men & Women on Show
Nov 20, 2003 6:54 PM
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> > > I find it quite amusing which men, the women
> > posters
> > > find most attractive on Carnivale.
>
> Briinc, roadbaby,
>
> I tried posting this earlier, so if it's on twice or
> more, I apologize. Just in case it's not on at all,
> though, I'm presenting my Cosmo-style assessment on
> what it means if you like a particular guy, in the
> Carnivale cast.
>
> 1. Ben.
> Ben is young, smooth-skinned, and perfect boy on the
> threshhold of manhood. Honest and hardworking, Ben
> is a down-to earth farmboy with no finesse at all.
> He blushes easily, shuns casual sex, and is pretty
> up front about what he thinks. There's nothing fake
> about this boy.
>
> The women who love Ben, love to rescue stray puppies.
> They're big-hearted, honest and hardworking
> themselves. The woman who loves Ben's easy
> blushing, his youth, and his innocence, is an
> honest, faithful woman who values faithfulness,
> loyalty, and dependability over all.
>
> Trustworthy, kind, and practical, such women believe
> actions speak louder than words, and care more about
> results, than intentions. These ladies are
> attractive, athletic, and willing to put up with a
> certain amount of inexperience, in return for
> faithfulness and honesty. She sees in Ben a diamond
> in the rough, which is what she is herself.
>
> 2. Jonesy
> Clayton Jones is passionate, sensual, strong, and
> full of integrity. He's a man, in every sense of the
> word. Jonesy's integrity and courage are such that
> not one person in the audience has criticized him yet
> for balling his best friend's wife, blaming either
> Stumpy or Rita Sue instead.
>
> Women who love Jonesy, want a man who is very
> masculine, athletic, and sure of himself.
> Traditional values, a 2 carat diamond, and
> traditional man-pursues-woman courtship, are what
> they want and expect.
> Jonesy gals are good-looking, and have a high
> self-esteem. They want a man who will treat them
> like a lady during courtship, but get down and dirty
> in the shower. They also want a man who will punch
> the lights out of that guy in the bar who hits on
> them unwanted. Old-fashioned, traditional, and
> idealistic, describes these women, as does
> passionate, good-looking, and optimistic.
>
> Stumpy:
> Felix is a fast-talking, sharp-eyed con artist. His
> hands and astonishing coordination keep working, even
> when he's too drunk to stand. He's forgiving,
> non-judgemental, and kind-hearted. He's also very
> experienced. He's not fooled by a little makeup or a
> pushup bra, but he appreciates the effort.
>
> Felix-fanciers care more about a good
> good conversation than great looks. They want a man
> who sees them as an equal, and above all can make
> them laugh. They want a man who is an ally against
> the world.
> A man who doesn't break eye contact when
> when sweet-talking her into the bed, and who never
> fumbles with unhooking the bra, is sexier to
> Stumpy-lovers than a mere good-looking man.
> Women who love Felix want an equal partner.
> rtner. They're independent, smart, funny, and don't
> mind splitting the check. They also take care of
> themselves, and expect him to do the same.
>
> Samson
>
> Samson is used to using money to get his way. He
> sees all the world as a stage, and everything in it
> is for sale, as far as he's concerned. Who has the
> gold, makes the rules.
>
> Women who love Samson are very, very rare. Usually
> quite beautiful, and sick of men who claim to love
> them but want to use them as trophies to impress,
> these women value Samson's ability to spot a bargain,
> his honesty about the way the world works, and his
> willingness to be up front about the nature of the
> game, and how it is played.
>
> They have no use for Ben's blushes, Jonesy's muscles,
> or even Stumpy's sweet-talk. What they want in a
> lover, is a little skill, and to know where they
> stand. Generosity a plus. Samson's vulnerable side,
> so well-protected, and his shy ego, are candy to
> these women. You know who you are, ladies, and you
> like a worthy adversary in the battle of the sexes,
> far more than a good-looking man in your bed.
>
> Gecko
> Nobody's attracted to Gecko up front. Gecko's that
> guy you never ever thought you'd touch, and then once
> you did, you couldn't stop thinking about it. "The
> ones you never notice, are the ones you have to
> watch," and all that.
>
> To women, Gecko is that guy who will tell you whether
> or not to sleep with that guy you've been thinking
> about going with, and incidentally will also tell you
> if you've gained weight, if your blue dress makes you
> look thinner than your red one, and if those
> highlights you've been considering are a bad idea.
>
> He's your best gay buddy with the foul mouth, that
> you can compare notes with about sex, and he'll tell
> you what men are really thinking about when they get
> a blowjob. Priceless. Foulmouthed, but
> golden-hearted, Gecko knows what you are going
> through.
>
> Gecko is a secret lover. Nobody takes Gecko home to
> Mama, and nobody admits, let alone brags, about
> sleeping with Gecko to their friends.
>
> To men, Gecko is that guy you actually said yes to
> one time in summer camp out of curiosity, who didn't
> act surprised when you pretended for the rest of your
> life not to remember.
>
> He has no inhibitions, no limits, no boundaries, and
> no shame. He'll try anything once. Anything. If
> you've always wondered about some particularly kinky
> or gross sex act, Gecko's your man. He's a
> superfreak who'll try anything once, and expect
> absolutely nothing from you the next day.
>
> But since his whole life has been secret affairs,
> don't expect to be able to lie to him about any of
> yours. He spotted that Rita Sue-Jonesy thing at one
> glance.
>
> There are no Gecko-fanciers. Gecko is himself a Ben
> man, which means that his dirty talk, and freaky
> secret sex life, conceal a deep desire for a nice,
> traditional boyfriend, innocence, and faithfulness.
> And maybe dinner with Mama on Sundays.
>
> Justin
> Justin's a man devoted to causes, with a voice that
> could melt rock. He's got an iron will, and is
> impossible to manipulate. He's passionate, powerful,
> and single-minded.
>
> The women who love Justin want a man whose voice
> oice makes them weak in the knees. They want a man
> with a plan, a purpose, and they want to be a part of
> that purpose. They're not afraid of emotional
> neediness. In fact, the more they are needed, the
> more they like it. They want a man who is at the
> center of a lot, and they want to be at the center of
> his cosmos, his reason for being.
> The billowing black robes, rumbling voice, and
> and precious idealism of a Justin, together with his
> passion and intensity, is what appeals to these gals,
> who find Ben just a little tepid next to all that.
>
> Justin lovers can have sex without taking off
> ff their clothes. Just voice and eye contact is
> enough for them. A little innuendo goes a long way
> with them. They will not tolerate a rival, nor will
> they stand for being ignored. These girls are
> brutally honest, extremely vulnerable, and strangely
> magnetic, though not necessarily conventionally
> pretty.
>
> Lodz:
> Lodz is the consummate sensualist. He probably knows
> more about sex than anyone on the show. He knows the
> location of every nerve in his partner's body, what
> it's for, and what its limits are.
> He's the most empathic character, as well. He
> He can't help it. Your emotions are his emotions,
> as soon as he touches you. Only a profound
> conviction that people will, sooner or later, screw
> you over, prevents him from falling in love with
> everyone he meets.
> This, along with a voice like a panther in heat,
> eat, a smile that would melt butter at 40 paces, and
> a touch that you just know is some combination of
> electricity and chinese silk, make him extremely
> attractive.
> Lodz has beautiful bone structure, and is
> surprisingly well-preserved, but with his other
> assets he could get away with being butt-ugly.
> He is also unconventional. He sets his
> s his boundaries to accommodate a very eccentric
> approach to life, and the combination of commitment,
> sexual freedom, and intellectual companionship is
> irresistible to a certain kind of unconventional,
> bohemian woman.
>
> The Lodz loving woman is artistic, sensual, and every
> bit as romantic and cynical as Lodz himself. She
> wants to lose herself completely in sex, as often as
> possible, for as long as possible, which is what that
> voice holds out the promise of. Lodz is aware that
> the mind is the chief erognous zone. The Lodz woman
> is aware of this, too, and uses this to her
> advantage, making even her partner's flaws into
> fetishes, eroticizing and appreciating every element
> of his character and his body. The Lodz woman is
> often older, a romantic cynic, highly experienced,
> and very educated, much like the Professor himself.
> She doesn't consider herself pretty, but expects a
> partner to re-invent her as beautiful in his mind,
> and will return the favor tenfold.
>
> T
Titannia, sister, you need to get your online tarot thing going. I am very impressed with your intuitions, insights, and eloquent and gentle descriptions.
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Posts:
3,598
Registered:
11/10/03
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(17409 of 17420)
Nov 19, 2003 4:16 AM
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If you want to hear really good American non-commerical, free-form radio, I suggest you try the Bronx NYC PBS station WFUV fm 90.7.
You can get streaming broadcast on the Net via:
www.wfuv.org
I suggest M-F 5 am thru 1 am and Sat 6 pm - 12 mn and Sun 5 am-11 am, unless you like Polish, Irish and German tradional music at the other times.
- Bri -
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Posts:
7
Registered:
11/7/03
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(17408 of 17420)
Re: Prophets in the house
Nov 18, 2003 11:46 PM
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I, too was stumped about the phrase "Every prophet in his house." So I googled it. I did come up with one thing that might relate to the phrase. Here is a link:
http://www.acleartrumpet.org/newsletter/aprophet.htm
I thought it might have something to do with why they keep saying this in the dreams/visions.
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Posts:
79
Registered:
11/1/03
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(17407 of 17420)
Re: Attractive Men & Women on Show
Nov 18, 2003 1:14 PM
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> Lilith,
>
> So which one(s) were you?
>
> T
Ben tries my patience, though he is a sweet little boy sometimes. I see him as too juvenile for my taste.
Jonesy is the man I've been living and working with for the past decade: handsome, rugged, caring, but really too John Wayne-y at times. He's learned to cope with the fact that he's clueless about a lot of things that are important to me, and I've learned to cope with it too. It's not the best match, but it has its "percolations"... :p
Stumpy was my ex, a man I adored for his sense of humor, but ultimately left for his unresolved and unforgiving repressed anger. He wasn't abusive, just intolerably frustrated with the world and he brought it all home with him way too many times. As the years went by he couldn't talk sweet or laugh anymore, and that was that.
Samson's too much like my dad's generation for me to have any use for him as anything but an uncle. I certainly wouldn't want to be at the receiving end of one of his little jealousy fits, either.
Gecko's a (girl)friend, but not a lover.
Justin is who my parents wanted my to marry ----(rabbit screams) eeeeeeek!!!! Love the hypermasculine voice though!!!
Lodz is who I dream about, and who I've been cultivating in Jonesy, with small but nonetheless pleasantly real effect, just a little around the edges. That "noble wreck" just rings my chimes like nobody's bidness.
Lilith
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Posts:
79
Registered:
11/1/03
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(17406 of 17420)
Nov 18, 2003 12:37 PM
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> Lilith,
>
> > And there's a third layer, I think. The Tatoo Man
> > may very well be a representation of John
> Barleycorn,
> > or the Year King of the Celts, and many other
> > folkloric traditions. Someone gets picked from
> the
> > tribe to represent the spirit of vegetation, gets
> > treated to all the food and drink and women he
> wants
> > without limit and without having to ask permission
> > (hence he can rape if he wants an no one will stop
> > him),
>
> Good grief-you mean whoever smashed the window to the
> trailer might have gotten in trouble for trying to
> STOP him? Good lord. Poor......someone, whose
> memories are in Sofie's blood for no
> reason........................
Yeppers! Lodz is probably in trouble, all right, and perhaps this was the "incident in St Louis" we've heard so mysteriously little about but in such ominous terms.
>
> >and then at the appointed season/holy day he
> > gets killed/sacrificed and his blood is spilled
> into
> > the land to renew its fertility and bring
> blessings
> > to all the tribe.
>
> Thank you. This is what I'm saying. Did you notice
> the tapestry?
>
> T
>
Abso-freakin'-lutely! The Tatoo Man there had 4 trees on his back. Other posters have counted either 5 or 3 trees on the Tatoo Men in Ben's dreams. I don't know if it's a generational counting mark for avatars, or if it's number of "kills" like fighter pilots in wartime track on the outsides of their planes.
The little boy with the trees painted on him is obviously an indication that the explanation for all this is relatively easy to get at in this town, if only Ben would start asking questions about what he sees. Tatoo Man is obviously common folklore to these people.
Lilith
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