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This topic is locked - replies are not allowed.
It seems that having hosts and mods in the Real Time with Bill Maher member created threads is a point of contention with some users. I'm posing a possible solution and want to hear your feedback - what if the Member Created threads became member-managed?
This would mean no HBO hosts and no day-to-day mods in member created areas. When entering this area, you would be made aware that the rules were different than in the official areas. The report abuse button would still be available but deletions would only occur if a post was in gross violation of board standards such as pornagraphic, racist or homophobic language or a physical threat towards another user. (We'd develop clearly defined standards for both areas and post openly.)
For users uncomfortable with this environment, the Official Threads will be moderated and have HBO Hosts to help facilitate relevant discussions.
What are your thoughts? Would having two separate areas help solve the problem or only make things more confusing?
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(97 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 23, 2008 10:05 AM
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Unfortunately, since this thread has veered off into personal attacks and off topic conversations it's going to be locked so that we can review the legitimate Feedback we did receive.
A new general Feedback thread will be created and moderated as all our Official threads are. Any non Feedback related posts made to that thread will be deleted.
Thanks to everyone who supplied feedback and offered your suggestions.
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(96 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 23, 2008 8:36 AM
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Sabrina, I made no summation, I'm not arrogant enough to make a fool of my self by repeatedly claiming to have rested my case.
If I am so wrong about how thing were versus how they are, check out our board just after dinner time. See how many threads are so active you can't keep up with everything that has been said. Then go check the archives and see how often thread counts were going up by several hundred a day.
The evidence of more censorship leading to more posters DOES NOT EXIST. In fact, the exact opposite can be proven with very little research.
I still do not rest my case.
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(95 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 23, 2008 8:32 AM
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Sabrina, LastStand has made his summation. Now I will make mine. LastStand ask you to look at the language of the last couple of days, well let's do that. LastStand has ask that the boards be returned to the glory days. They have said the member threads used to fun. I ask glory days and fun for who? The flamers that's who. They have admitted outright and through insinuation that when the had a free hand they stalked, harassed, slandered, lied and basically made life miserable for whoever and whenever they felt like it. They have asked you openly to give them permission to "flame the shit out of people" his words not mine, whenever they see fit. I have seen I don't know how many new posters on their very first post get the reply "you go f**k yourself" Their words not mine. Most of them never returned. They claim to have the boards best interest at heart, that is not quite right, they have their own best interest at heart. The language I have see here the last couple of days suggests that they believe that they have the God given right to control the member threads through whatever means they see fit. I have had my own personal information posted by some of them in an effort to intimidate me. One of them in this thread yesterday accused me of being a pedophile, a standard insult used by many of them. Sabrina we have before us two options. 1. Continue the member threads in a moderated fashion and keep them a descent place for all. HBO17 has gone along way in cleaning the place up, let's not throw 17's good work away. So what if the flamers leave, they will be replaced by posters that can control themselves and behave in a civil manner. I have heard them claim to be adults. Adults do not behave in this manner, adults do not slander, harass, insult, and stalk people. Adults behave in a civil manner. Then we have option 2. Hbo can create a play pen for these social misfits and make the member threads a place not fit for decent people. The member threads would be returned to mob rule through intimidation, slander, stalking, hate speech, insults and any other thing they can think of to harass people. Yes Sabrina, take a close look at the language used here the last couple of days. To me the answer is clear, continue the member threads in a moderated fashion. The only sane thing to do.
--
"Opinion of The Right"
The #1 thread on the RT board, Again.
Civility is cool.
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(94 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 23, 2008 3:54 AM
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Admins, as you consider this entire argument I'd like you to just take note of the language used. Now I'm not talking about vulgar language or abusive language. No, enough has been said about those already.
Rather, I'd like you to consider the language people use regarding the boards and the posters.
We say things like "our board" or "my board". Yes, you own the board but it is ours. We built it. You just provided the real estate. We made it our home. We made it the place we want to come back to each day to check in with friends and rehash debates we had years ago just because it was so fun the first time.
There is another one for you, "we". We use that one a lot too. We are a we, a community, a group of individuals brought together by friendships formed in the trenches of political battle.
Look at which posters speak of their home board in these terms of ownership and belonging. Look at where they stand on this issue. And then look at the people that pride themselves on not being part of the community. The ones full of "I" and "You". And look at what side they are on.
Then step back and ask yourselves which group has the best interest of the community at heart.
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Edited by LastStand4Ever at 01/23/2008 12:59 AM
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(93 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 23, 2008 2:54 AM
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> This particular forum was meant for all of us, neh?
> Yet everybody else has seemed to step back because
> e you folks at Bill Maher Real Time seem to have the
> most difficult issues.
Two things.
First, Mark, I was the one that pointed this stuff out. I noticed a thread on the Rome board about it and none of the posters there knew what was going on. Considering the matter in of great importance to them, I thought it only right that they know the facts of what is going on. I happen to think that the Rome board should be allowed to exist as long as people are willing to use it. I also think HBO should let the communities in possibly danger know right now who they are.
Second, Nomad, while this thread was made for everyone, as I imagine all threads started by the admins are, it was specifically about our board. We RTers are dominating the discussion but it is about us.
I hope HBO makes all user forums user moderated but it has more meaning for us. Political debate is a different beast and it requires open debate.
May your board live for many years!
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(92 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 23, 2008 1:59 AM
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> Admin Sabrina, please respond directly to this....
> if the RTers would stop all this griping and whining
> and let our post get read here.
>
> --
> MOB
>
> We are always the same age inside.
> Gertrude Stein
Sorry MOB, I got at least one more good gripe I need to air. Don't worry though, Sabrina seems to read through all of the posts.
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(91 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 9:34 PM
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> > This is what an open public forum is supposed to
> be
> > anyway, so why not.
> >
> > Yes, I wholeheartedly support this idea 100%.
> >
> > Let me tell you why.
> >
> > Many people have become upset about a certain
> member
> > here in the past. HBO Admin 1 said that they
> would be
> > dealt with. Eventually they did.....but not
> until
> > after many (including myself) had to tell her
> that
> > said member was threatening to take an action
> against
> > a member off the boards.
> >
> > If they had listened to the members to begin
> with it
> > would not have escalated to that point. Then,
> this
> > person went on to harass myself and others via
> PMs
> > even though they were banned because HBO didn't
> > actually remove the membership.
> >
> > Now why is this important.....because the group
> here
> > realised that there was a problem with that
> person.
> > When no action was taken by HBO, the group dealt
> with
> > that person in the best way a group could. They
> > questioned nearly every move he made on the
> forum to
> > his face. This seemed to only muddle the problem
> for
> > HBO Admin 1 who told me that this meant that no
> one
> > would be banned because it became "Unclear" who
> the
> > problem was.
> >
> > Well, you know what.....no Mods or Admin and
> this
> > place will deal with those that cross a line. It
> does
> > not have to become a debate.
> >
> > Is it unclear who is the problem....read your
> > incoming messages (mods that is) and look for
> the
> > complaints...research the problem and deal with
> it
> > immediately. Don't wait to see if the person
> actually
> > commits a hate crime against gays.....if they
> > threaten it in anyway and someone complains and
> you
> > see it did actually happen delete that persons
> > account. Period.
> >
> > If you look and see that there is no real
> problem
> > explain why. Don't let people hang waiting and
> > getting anxious and confused. Just tell
> them...."the
> > complaint was found to be warrantless
> because....."
> >
> > They call it communication. Tell the person that
> made
> > the warrantless complaint why it is warrantless
> > otherwise people will make stuff up in their
> minds
> > and before you know it the entire board is at
> war
> > with a few people that don't deserve it. If they
> keep
> > up....ban those people as well.
>
> Thanks MarkMiller -
>
> This is how we hope to move forward in the future.
> One thing we'd underscore is the difficulty of the
> e task we have at hand. These boards are pretty
> sizable and require a decent sized staff in order to
> keep up with the level of posting. We get to
> complaints and issues as fast as we can and are
> currently making changes that will increase that
> speed. However, it can sometimes be difficult to
> follow an entire conversation and identify patterns
> of harassment that are used subtly. We hope that you
> will help alert us of this in the future. But it
> doesn't help when the offended party retaliates by
> attacking the user at hand. This only complicates
> our job by requiring that we deal with BOTH
> offensives. But we apologize for not getting to the
> issue more quickly in the past and have been working
> to ensure that we can in the future.
>
> Thanks!
No, Thank You! This really is a good idea and I think it will work to everyones advantage including Justice and Cleo. They may not be able to see it right now. But it is not about a mob, it's about self control....for everyone.
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(90 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 4:55 PM
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Hi Mods,
If you want us to use the Ignore button more often, why not show posters how many people have a poster on ignore?
Could be a good guide for a lot of people.
cheers,
--
Edited by Julia03 at 01/22/2008 2:17 PM
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(89 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 4:41 PM
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Mods, there isn't a whole lot left to say. But as you consider your decision, please take note of who has been coming in baiting other posters, looking for a fight, insulting people as though they are beneath them. Ask yourself, would you stay in an environment where you had no recourse against such smug insulting abusive behavior?
I really do appreciate the effort that you have put into this. I have spent nearly 5 years on that board making friends and having a great time. I just want that to be able to continue and frankly, I don't think you guys need to be involved in making sure no one gets called a name, especially when the person complaining about it is throwing just as many insults that just happen to be more wordy.
I thank you for your time.
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4,762
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(88 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 2:57 PM
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I think Franks original message was deleted, then my response was as well.
> I am going out of my way not to get banned here. I
> honestly am only interested in returning the board to
> a fun place to hang out, which simply can't happen
> with all the unfair moderation. But I'm beginning
> to think we old timers are fucked.
So the way I see it, three people want to be molly-coddled and the absolute rest of us would rather have an honest and open discussion.
This matter should be settled now.
To the three, please have fun discussing things with yourselves. If you have an honest difference of opinion about something, that's fine, please join in the discussion. But cutting and pasting topics is not an opinion. Saying good morning for the sole pupose of pissing people off, is not an opinion. Posting arbritrary notices about manners is not an opinion.
You all do not have to join in any conversations that you do not wish to participate in.
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Posts:
3,344
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(87 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 1:33 PM
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> Fleur -
>
> Sorry your question got overlooked, it wasn't
> intentional. We will not be allowing banned users to
> return to the boards. If a user cannot abide by the
> terms of service of this site, they are not welcome
> here.
>
> We are of course aware that many banned users attempt
> to beat the system and come back - we will continue
> to ban those users and each iteration of their new
> user name.
>
> I'm sure you can understand that if we allow one
> previously banned user to return to the boards we
> have to allow them all (wouldn't want to be accused
> of favoritism.) Hypothetically, if a user who
> threatened you and was banned for it was allowed to
> return to the boards, I'd imagine you'd be pissed.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, the decision to ban a
> user is not taken lightly. All cases are reviewed by
> multiple people within HBO and once a unanimous
> decision is made, it's final.
>
> Thanks!
> Sabrina
Sabrina...As a current, paying, HBO subscriber I will address this last post..
1. I have seen posters banned for nothing but sarcasm and daring to defy to board moderators.
2. I have seen a poster who have mentioned that they would be glad if a fellow poster "went home and shot himself" be allowed to stay.
3.I have seen another that posted to a fellow poister that has finished medical school that they "had no business in the healing arts" and still be allowed to stay.
4 It seems to me that there is some bias and power-tripping going on here.
Just my perception.....Don't think I'm alone
I hope this post doesn't get me banned..At least not before The Wire concludes it's final season.
--
She doesn't need a lover she needs a social worker
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(86 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 1:05 PM
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Fleur -
Sorry your question got overlooked, it wasn't intentional. We will not be allowing banned users to return to the boards. If a user cannot abide by the terms of service of this site, they are not welcome here.
We are of course aware that many banned users attempt to beat the system and come back - we will continue to ban those users and each iteration of their new user name.
I'm sure you can understand that if we allow one previously banned user to return to the boards we have to allow them all (wouldn't want to be accused of favoritism.) Hypothetically, if a user who threatened you and was banned for it was allowed to return to the boards, I'd imagine you'd be pissed.
Contrary to popular belief, the decision to ban a user is not taken lightly. All cases are reviewed by multiple people within HBO and once a unanimous decision is made, it's final.
Thanks!
Sabrina
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(85 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 12:40 PM
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Sabrina, I have a question. There seems to be mass confusion on this subject. Does HBO own the threads or does the poster that created it? Can the poster that created it, bar other people from posting there? Please clear this up for all of us.
--
"Opinion of The Right"
The #1 thread on the RT board, Again.
Civility is cool.
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2,879
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(84 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 12:32 PM
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Just a couple of points to cull from all this:
1) HBO's invitation to participate on its community message boards is an open one, not limited only to subscribers.
2) However, a point being lost in all this is that those of us who pay our $19.95 a month for HBO should reasonably expect to come to these boards and not be treated like we're some entrenched clique's idea of a piece of sh*t.
3) To suggest or assert that a poster does not belong here because they don't subscribe to the network or watch a show (many of which no longer air) to which a forum is dedicated, is a red herring exclusionary gambit that propounds an opinion that, IMO, HBO does not share.
4) To suggest that RT member thread posters do not belong there and must be rudely and abusively "culled" therefrom because they are "conservatives" or "not liberals" is also an exclusionary gambit, which propounds an opinion that Bill Maher, who includes guests with beliefs from across the political spectrum and insists they be treated with respect by his audience when they appear, IMO, also does not share.
Cleo
--
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams." From "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven", W.B. Yeats
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Guest
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(83 of 97)
Re: Should Member Created threads have different standards?
Jan 22, 2008 12:01 PM
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> >> I'm an HBO Administrator trying to work together
> >with
> >> this community to create an environment where
> >users
> >> don't harass one another, HBO isn't threatened
> >with
> >> legal action and an idealogical debate can still
> >take
> > >place.
> > >
> >> It's a challenge.
> >
> >But you are only chatting with trolls because they
>> are kissing your butt and banning regulars?!?!???
>Actually I was just reponding to valid questions posed.
Really, Sabrina?? So then the question Reposted below was not "valid" enough?
HBOSabrina,
Will it be possible for the greatly missed people who are currently banned to again be allowed to return if the MCTs are changed in regards to new regulations as to how the MCTs will be run if they have different standards? Some were banned for defending themselves to an attack intentionally perpretrated by another poster as well as others who expressed their dissatisfaction as to the way they were treated on the forum or the direction the forum had taken. I only ask because if these changes had occured prior to their banishment, they'd still be here based on the new rules.
Could we make their return possible if the MCTs take on a different form of mgmt? This would be wonderful and would allow access to all of these great, hilariously comedic personalities once again.
Thanks for your consideration
--
Fleur
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