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This would be my preferred candidate for another series. Just reading his life is like an epic movie of the strangest scenarios and perspectives of which one could dream. Get it done, Mr. Hanks and HBO!
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Posts:
22
Registered:
4/21/08
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(21 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Jun 17, 2008 11:52 PM
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> > > It's tragic that as a subsitute for
> arguments
> > the
> > > childish, the uneducated and the dishonest
> so
> > often
> > > resort to personal attacks, dishonest, and
>
> > > self-avowed "screaming at their
> television
> > sets".
> > > However, mere typographical errors aside
> the
> > > inability to post even simple readable
> > statements
> > > considering HBO's included spell checker
> is
> > amusing
> > > and illustrative of the authors societal
> class,
> >
> > > employment level and educational
> achievement (or
> > lack
> > > thereof).
> > >
> > Ron, you are simply the King of childish,
> uneducated
> > and personal attacks! Take a clue here, pal -
> look in
> > the mirror before you resort to your name
> calling
> > again.
>
> Pal?
>
Ron, whatever you do, don't take it in any endearing or affectionate way...
>
> > > Simply Laughable.
> > >
> > Yeah, you sure are... 
> >
> > > There is no "Deist religion" except that
> created
> > by
> > > the dishonest, the most acrobatic and
> > stupendous
> > > interpretations. the stupid and as a poor
> > substitute
> > > for the means of propaganda, dishonest and
>
> > > manipulation.
> >
> > OMG, Ron. You sound EXACTLY the type of person
> that
> > most people who came to this country were trying
> to
> > get away from in the first place - a person of
> > religious persecution! The fact that you have a
> > problem with Deism is all too clear here.
> Although I
> > personally do not label myself as such one way
> or
> > another, it is rather sad of you to be so lame
> and
> > ignorant to bash those in this world who do
> consider
> > themselves Deists. It is just your nature, I
> > suppose...
>
> Perhaps you could cite the "Deist Bible"? Or at
> least pretend one exists?
>
There is no true Deist Bible as Deism is a philosophy. The closest "bible" of Deism would be Matthew Tindal's "Christianity as Old as the Creation" (1730). Ron, I suggest you try studying about a subject next time before you argue against it.
>
> > Whether you like it or not, John Adams was a
> > Unitarian, and he and his family are buried in
> a
> > Unitarian Church. As Robert B. Everett wrote in
> "The
> > Mature Religious Thought of John Adams", he
> argues
> > "that Adams was not a deist, but he used
> deistic
> > terms in his speeches and writing. He believed
> in the
> > essential goodness of the creation, but did not
> > believe in the divinity of Christ or that God
> > intervened in the affairs of individuals.
> Although
> > not anti-clerical, he advocated the separation
> of
> > church and state. He also believed that regular
> > church service was beneficial to man's moral
> sense.
> > Everett concludes that "Adams strove for a
> religion
> > based on a common sense sort of reasonableness"
> and
> > maintained that religion must change and evolve
> > toward perfection."
>
>
> Actually there are a considerably more references to
> Christianity made by both Samuel and John Adams that
> I have already presented and that you have stubbornly
> ignored.
>
Really, Ron... the references you try present as facts are no where near the amount of references against your argument. You clearly have to do a lot more than just post the same pablum over and over in numerous threads in the HBO forums. Try finding quotes directly from John Adams himself, as you have most definitely continued to ignore again and again.
>
> > Ron, just because Adams selected a Christian
> Reverend
> > to read a passage for the First Congress, that
> makes
> > him no more Christian than it would a Hindu,
> Jew,
> > Muslim or any other. If it did, then guilt by
> > association would be the law of the land. Adams
> liked
> > certain practices of Christianity, but, as
> should be
> > very easy for you to see, he certainly didn't
> like or
> > even practice all of them. Adams was a moral
> being
> > with a belief in a higher power first, plain
> and
> > simple!
>
>
>
> Have a Nice Day
>
> Now that wasn't so hard, was it? Why don't you try
> opening a post that way, like a civil citizen?
>
Ron, if you are the definition of a "civil citizen", then this country has truly gone to hell in a handbasket!
Have a Nice Day
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Posts:
113
Registered:
3/28/08
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(20 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Jun 15, 2008 2:59 PM
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> > It's tragic that as a subsitute for arguments
> the
> > childish, the uneducated and the dishonest so
> often
> > resort to personal attacks, dishonest, and
> > self-avowed "screaming at their television
> sets".
> > However, mere typographical errors aside the
> > inability to post even simple readable
> statements
> > considering HBO's included spell checker is
> amusing
> > and illustrative of the authors societal class,
>
> > employment level and educational achievement (or
> lack
> > thereof).
> >
> Ron, you are simply the King of childish, uneducated
> and personal attacks! Take a clue here, pal - look in
> the mirror before you resort to your name calling
> again.
Pal?
> > Simply Laughable.
> >
> Yeah, you sure are...
>
> > There is no "Deist religion" except that created
> by
> > the dishonest, the most acrobatic and
> stupendous
> > interpretations. the stupid and as a poor
> substitute
> > for the means of propaganda, dishonest and
> > manipulation.
>
> OMG, Ron. You sound EXACTLY the type of person that
> most people who came to this country were trying to
> get away from in the first place - a person of
> religious persecution! The fact that you have a
> problem with Deism is all too clear here. Although I
> personally do not label myself as such one way or
> another, it is rather sad of you to be so lame and
> ignorant to bash those in this world who do consider
> themselves Deists. It is just your nature, I
> suppose...
Perhaps you could cite the "Deist Bible"? Or at least pretend one exists?
> Whether you like it or not, John Adams was a
> Unitarian, and he and his family are buried in a
> Unitarian Church. As Robert B. Everett wrote in "The
> Mature Religious Thought of John Adams", he argues
> "that Adams was not a deist, but he used deistic
> terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the
> essential goodness of the creation, but did not
> believe in the divinity of Christ or that God
> intervened in the affairs of individuals. Although
> not anti-clerical, he advocated the separation of
> church and state. He also believed that regular
> church service was beneficial to man's moral sense.
> Everett concludes that "Adams strove for a religion
> based on a common sense sort of reasonableness" and
> maintained that religion must change and evolve
> toward perfection."
Actually there are a considerably more references to Christianity made by both Samuel and John Adams that I have already presented and that you have stubbornly ignored.
> Ron, just because Adams selected a Christian Reverend
> to read a passage for the First Congress, that makes
> him no more Christian than it would a Hindu, Jew,
> Muslim or any other. If it did, then guilt by
> association would be the law of the land. Adams liked
> certain practices of Christianity, but, as should be
> very easy for you to see, he certainly didn't like or
> even practice all of them. Adams was a moral being
> with a belief in a higher power first, plain and
> simple!
Have a Nice Day
Now that wasn't so hard, was it? Why don't you try opening a post that way, like a civil citizen?
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Posts:
22
Registered:
4/21/08
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(19 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Jun 2, 2008 3:53 AM
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> It's tragic that as a subsitute for arguments the
> childish, the uneducated and the dishonest so often
> resort to personal attacks, dishonest, and
> self-avowed "screaming at their television sets".
> However, mere typographical errors aside the
> inability to post even simple readable statements
> considering HBO's included spell checker is amusing
> and illustrative of the authors societal class,
> employment level and educational achievement (or lack
> thereof).
>
Ron, you are simply the King of childish, uneducated and personal attacks! Take a clue here, pal - look in the mirror before you resort to your name calling again.
>
> Simply Laughable.
>
Yeah, you sure are...
> There is no "Deist religion" except that created by
> the dishonest, the most acrobatic and stupendous
> interpretations. the stupid and as a poor substitute
> for the means of propaganda, dishonest and
> manipulation.
OMG, Ron. You sound EXACTLY the type of person that most people who came to this country were trying to get away from in the first place - a person of religious persecution! The fact that you have a problem with Deism is all too clear here. Although I personally do not label myself as such one way or another, it is rather sad of you to be so lame and ignorant to bash those in this world who do consider themselves Deists. It is just your nature, I suppose...
Whether you like it or not, John Adams was a Unitarian, and he and his family are buried in a Unitarian Church. As Robert B. Everett wrote in "The Mature Religious Thought of John Adams", he argues "that Adams was not a deist, but he used deistic terms in his speeches and writing. He believed in the essential goodness of the creation, but did not believe in the divinity of Christ or that God intervened in the affairs of individuals. Although not anti-clerical, he advocated the separation of church and state. He also believed that regular church service was beneficial to man's moral sense. Everett concludes that "Adams strove for a religion based on a common sense sort of reasonableness" and maintained that religion must change and evolve toward perfection."
Ron, just because Adams selected a Christian Reverend to read a passage for the First Congress, that makes him no more Christian than it would a Hindu, Jew, Muslim or any other. If it did, then guilt by association would be the law of the land. Adams liked certain practices of Christianity, but, as should be very easy for you to see, he certainly didn't like or even practice all of them. Adams was a moral being with a belief in a higher power first, plain and simple!
Have a Nice Day
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Posts:
113
Registered:
3/28/08
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(18 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 25, 2008 4:32 PM
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It's tragic that as a subsitute for arguments the
childish, the uneducated and the dishonest so often
resort to personal attacks, dishonest, and
self-avowed "screaming at their television sets".
However, mere typographical errors aside the
e inability to post even simple readable statements
considering HBO's included spell checker is amusing
and illustrative of the authors societal class,
employment level and educational achievement (or lack
thereof).
George Washington kept a prayer journal all his life
confirmed by handwriting experts which he named the
THE DAILY SACRIFCE.
Excerpts of the thousands of daily entries include
MONDAY MORNING..Daily frame me more and more into the likeness of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that living in
fear and dying in Thy favor, I may in thy appointed
time attain the resurrection of the just into eternal
life.
..This is one very typical journal entry of George
Washington's out of thousands.
Samuel Adams among a multiude of hundreds of other
living documents and official government records was
recorded to be a devout Christian and was reported to
be a devout believer in the Puritans. In 1772
Samuel Adams, wrote "The rights of the Colonists"
which included this statement: The rights of the
Colonists may best be understood by reading and
carefully studying The Great Law Giver and the Head
of the Christian Church which are to be found clearly
written and promulgated in the New Testament.
Patrick Henry said "Doctor, I wish you to obseve how
real and beneficial the religion of Christ is to a
man. I am much consoled by reflecting that the
religion of Christ has, from its first appearance in
the world been attacked in vain by all the wits,
philosophers and the wise ones aided by every power
r of man and its triumph has been complete.
George Washinton told the representatives of a
visiting nation (official government documents) the
following. You do well to learn our arts and ways of
life and above all the religion of Jesus Christ.
--Deism?
John Adams selected the Reverend Jacob Duche to give
the opening prayer of the First Congress. The
Reverend Duche read the entire of Psalm 35 from the
Christian Bible (not the Deist bible which does not
exist except as fantasy in the minds of pot induced
liberaltarians and ignornant academic failures) which
includes: "Plead my case O Lord, with them that
strive with me."
These are but a few of the quotes and events of just
a few of the Founding Fathers. On any other issue,
there would be those bemoaning the influence of
Christianity among the Puritans, the Quakers,
conservative Christians, the modern christian right
(pathetic and such as it is), yet as pseudo
historians we are asked to believe that "a cult of
"deists" without any bible, physical church or
historical tradition magically were sent as
democratically chosen representatives of the church
dotted (then and now for good or worse) colonies to
creat the United States.
Simply Laughable.
There is no "Deist religion" except that created by
the dishonest, the most acrobatic and stupendous
interpretations. the stupid and as a poor substitute
for the means of propaganda, dishonest and
manipulation.
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Posts:
22
Registered:
4/21/08
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(17 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 12, 2008 11:33 PM
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> > We are all so very happy that you claim to have
> the
> > facts (yeah right)... that you apparently have
> > firsthand knowledge as to not only what the
> Unitarian
> > religion was exactly like 200 years ago, but
> also as
> > to exactly how John and Abigail Adams felt of
> their
> > own religion!
>
> Perhaps you have not heard of the numerous historical
> documents, official recorded statements and physical
> evidence documenting the "facts" and otherwise
> regarded as "firsthand" knowledge, accepted facts and
> established history regarding culture, religion and
> personal sentiments.
> I am glad you are "happy" but I suspect that your
> "happiness" may have more to do with drug induced
> euhporia than actual education, reason and knowledge.
>
>
> Good Luck!
> Have a Nice Day!
Well Ron... I was wondering where you were.. we were all becoming a tad "bored" here without your firsthand knowledge of exactly how John and Abigail felt. But Ron, I have indeed read numerous historical books and watched numerous documentaries, relating to both John and Abigail Adams, as well as accounts of them as well.
Care to actually read some quotes from the very mouth of John Adams??? Try these:
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" (letter to Van der Kamp 12/27/1816)
"The frightful engines of ecclesiastical councils, of diabolical malice, and Calvinistical good-nature never failed to terrify me exceedingly whenever I thought of preaching." (letter to Richard Cranch 10/18/1756)
"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..." (Treaty of Tripoli 1797 signed by President Adams)
And I have much, much more from where that came from, Ron. Do you still care to TRY and use any more of your "twisted logic" (as you previously put it to another poster out there) that you truly know what the Adams truly felt?
You are certainly the card, no doubt about that... You truly never let anything like FACTS ever stand in your way, do you?
Oh... Have a Nice Day
--
Edited by Gipper1066 at 05/12/2008 9:04 PM PDT
--
Edited by Gipper1066 at 05/12/2008 9:12 PM PDT
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Posts:
183
Registered:
11/19/05
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(16 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 12, 2008 10:14 PM
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>>>>An illustrative point. Of all the distortions, falsehoods and caricatures of history, the near absense of all Christianity from the life of John Adams and early American History was perhaps the worst. Mrs. Adams was the daughter of a parson. Each member of the Adams family spent several hours a day in Church or Church related activities. Supposed artists may regard this for evil or good, but to ignore it is dishonest and incompetent in the extreme.
What exactly do we get from an examination of the superstitions of the dead? Do they somehow give weight to any of the multitude of superstitions of the living?
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Posts:
83
Registered:
4/16/08
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(15 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 7, 2008 9:53 PM
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You bet. If nothing more, it made my work day better!
Still LOL!!!
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Posts:
22
Registered:
4/21/08
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(14 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 7, 2008 9:29 PM
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LOL The pleasure is certainly mine... We certainly all have to stick together out here in one way or another, don't we?
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Posts:
83
Registered:
4/16/08
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(13 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 7, 2008 8:16 PM
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Gipper, I must thank you! I am still laughing as I type. What a terrific post. I hope all of your comments finally shut him down...
hahaha, LOL !!!!
Have a Nice Day!
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Posts:
22
Registered:
4/21/08
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(12 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 7, 2008 6:58 PM
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LOL
Ron,
We are all so very happy that you claim to have the facts (yeah right)... that you apparently have firsthand knowledge as to not only what the Unitarian religion was exactly like 200 years ago, but also as to exactly how John and Abigail Adams felt of their own religion!
Really Ron, the only "Comic Book" I have read in very long while is the one you continue to write on threads like these and in the HBO forums!
Have a Nice Day!
--
Edited by Gipper1066 at 05/07/2008 4:06 PM PDT
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Posts:
113
Registered:
3/28/08
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(11 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
May 4, 2008 7:04 PM
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> You're long on slanted opinions but very short on the
> facts. I have read the book.
I'm sorry but, the Comic Book doesn't count.
> John and Abigail Adams
> are buried under a Unitarian-Universalist church that
> still meets today apparently.
...rolling over in their graves, no doubt. By your twisted Chinese logic, the mutation of a denomination 200 years later is somehow an endorsement by those buried in the cemetary.
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Posts:
92
Registered:
7/16/07
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(10 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Apr 22, 2008 4:39 PM
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From the UU Association of Congregations website page about their beliefs....
Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion that encompasses many faith traditions. Unitarian Universalists include people who identify as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, and others. As there is no official Unitarian Universalist creed, Unitarian Universalists are free to search for truth on many paths.
To quote the Rev. Marta Flanagan, "We uphold the free search for truth. We will not be bound by a statement of belief. We do not ask anyone to subscribe to a creed. We say ours is a non-creedal religion. Ours is a free faith."
Although we uphold shared principles, individual Unitarian Universalists have varied beliefs about everything from scripture to rituals to God.
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Posts:
92
Registered:
7/16/07
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(9 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Apr 22, 2008 4:34 PM
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You're long on slanted opinions but very short on the facts. I have read the book. John and Abigail Adams are buried under a Unitarian-Universalist church that still meets today apparently. UUs are not mainstream Christians in any meaningful sense of the word but they have a beautiful doctrine that makes much more sense than most. Here is their welcoming message on their website:
--As a free fellowship of this historic church, We unite to lift our hearts and open our minds to a larger reality; To accept, support and encourage one another; To seek the wisdom in all religions; To cherish and sustain the web of life; And to strive for justice, compassion and peace. --
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Posts:
92
Registered:
7/16/07
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(8 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Apr 22, 2008 11:47 AM
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John Adams was no Christian. He rejected Christianity outright. He was a Unitarian which accepts ALL mainstream religious traditions as having great value. Here is a little history for you. Notice the wording in the Treaty with Tripoli that he signed as President.
John Adams, the second U.S. President rejected the Trinity... and became a Unitarian. It was during Adams' presidency that the Senate ratified the Treaty of Peace and Friendship with Tripoli, which states in Article XI that:
As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion - as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen, - and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arrising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. (Charles I. Bevans, ed. Treaties and Other International Agreements of the United States of America 1776-1949. Vol. 11: Philippines-United Arab Republic. Washington D.C.: Department of State Publications, 1974, p. 1072).
This treaty with the Islamic state of Tripoli had been written and concluded by Joel Barlow during Washington's Administration. The U.S. Senate ratified the treaty on June 7, 1797; President Adams signed it on June 10, 1797 and it was first published in the Session Laws of the Fifth Congress, first session in 1797.
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Posts:
113
Registered:
3/28/08
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(7 of 21)
Re: Up Next: Theodore Roosevelt
Apr 22, 2008 11:12 AM
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> "The Virgin herself never looked so winning -- so One
> -- as in this scandalous failure of her Grace. To
> what purpose had she existed, if, after nineteen
> hundred years, the world was bloodier than when she
> was born? The stupendous failure of Christianity
> tortured history." - Henry Adams
>
> The power of seeing an Adams observing and commenting
> on World War I while reflecting back upon all his
> predecessors and the prior Wars back to 1812 would be
> a very powerful commentary on American history and a
> fitting project for our times today.
An illustrative point. Of all the distortions, falsehoods and caricatures of history, the near absense of all Christianity from the life of John Adams and early American History was perhaps the worst. Mrs. Adams was the daughter of a parson. Each member of the Adams family spent several hours a day in Church or Church related activities. Supposed artists may regard this for evil or good, but to ignore it is dishonest and incompetent in the extreme.
Have a Nice Day!
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