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"Trust No Man Living with Power to Endanger the Public Liberty." -- John Adams
Threats to individual rights - from wiretaps to waterboarding to indefinite detention - are in the news every day in America. Is the publics liberty still in danger from those in power, two centuries after Adams' time?
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Re: what HBO creature has decreed that there be no new threads?
Apr 30, 2008 11:28 AM
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> As an American soldier I took an oath to defend the
> constitution.
God bless you. 
Freedom of religion but not murder. The
> Islamists do not fall under this protection, nor the
> racists extremists.
You're right - they don't. Anyone who will do anything to kill innocent people, including killing themselves and then hide behind the shield of religion are terrorists. They take the name of their god, and claim that through him they are charged and even blessed for killing innocents. We have to do all we can to stop them, even under to their deaths because they are doing everything they can to do the same to us.
> When this country has the love and fortitude to love
> all races and religions and atheists, we are
> immortal. If we can redirect our resouces to our poor
> as Christians , or just human beings without
> affiliation are taught we are family, we will survive
> the terrorists.
Beautifully said, tnoblett. Hard to add anything on top of that.
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Host_Ginna
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 30, 2008 1:16 AM
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This was a great series - thans HBO for putting it out there.
I realized we are still fighting the same themes even today.
I learned so much. Thanks again
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 29, 2008 11:11 PM
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When we fail to embrace all our people as Americans and prove theirselves loyal we shall perish from this globe.
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Re: what HBO creature has decreed that there be no new threads?
Apr 23, 2008 9:13 PM
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HBO which I have been a subsricber since their inception in the 70's has been my choice for controversy and wowism. Buo I respect the Jehovah's witnesses, Qaukers,t I believe now their management is biased, non religious, pro gay, anti war at all costs. And in many cases I agree. I am heterosexual but believe individual choice is an divine right and leave judgement to God. I hate war and would vote and march to stop it but some are ignorant to the fact that some brains want to kill Americans for glory to their imagined god's. Hitler's Aryan god, Japans divine emperor, the Ponitfix Maximus in Rome against the protestants in early Europe, Cromwells murder of faithful Catholics, the Aztec God's on and on and on. Do I respect Jehovah's Witnesses, Quakers, Amish yes yes yes. They've taken their stands.
As an American soldier I took an oath to defend the constitution. Freedom of religion but not murder. The Islamists do not fall under this protection, nor the racists extremists.
When this country has the love and fortitude to love all races and religions and atheists, we are immortal. If we can redirect our resouces to our poor as Christians , or just human beings without affiliation are taught we are family, we will survive the terrorists.
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Re: what HBO creature has decreed that there be no new threads?
Apr 23, 2008 8:52 AM
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> OK let's take a breath and remember that this is not
> history, but historic romance. Hollywood likes
> those things since they come with defined characters
> and story arcs.
>
> This bothers me:
> In episode 2 Mrs. Adams had the family inoculated
> against smallpox. Now Jenner did not invent
> vaccination till the 1790's= long after the
> revolution. Mrs Adams did use a live smallpox victim
> as the source of her inoculation and not cases of
> cowpox
>
> as Jenner did.
> Are we saying here that she was, what, 20 years ahead
> of her time medically?
Inoculation against smallpox was indeed in use during this time. In fact, Washington made the decision to inoculate all the troops when smallpox began to run rampant among the troops.
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what HBO creature has decreed that there be no new threads?
Apr 23, 2008 12:26 AM
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OK let's take a breath and remember that this is not history, but historic romance. Hollywood likes those things since they come with defined characters and story arcs.
This bothers me:
In episode 2 Mrs. Adams had the family inoculated against smallpox. Now Jenner did not invent vaccination till the 1790's= long after the revolution. Mrs Adams did use a live smallpox victim as the source of her inoculation and not cases of cowpox as Jenner did.
Are we saying here that she was, what, 20 years ahead of her time medically?
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 21, 2008 8:40 PM
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I cannot imagine that the scenes in the film devoted to the contention over the Alien and Sedition Acts were simply for the historical context. These Acts embody the difficulties of respecting individuals over and above general fear. More importantly, the scenes indicate very clearly that any attempt to safeguard the nation at the expense of Constitutional liberty is ultimately doomed.
I do wish they had indicated in the film that these Acts, combined with Hamilton's unfortunate and strident intriguing, backfired lethally upon the Federalists and, after the election of 1800, the prominent 25 people arrested under them (mostly newspaper editors and one Congressman, Matthew Lyon) were not only fully pardoned but voted recompense by Congress. The Acts themselves either expired within their 2-year limit or were repealed with the sole exception of the Alien Enemies Act, which has been used repeatedly in times of war and paved the way for that unconstitutional blunder referred to as the 'Patriot Act', as well as such national embarrassments as internment camps during WWII.
The end result of this comparison is starkly prophetic. The Alien and Sedition Acts, as a package, were controversial in their time and ultimately proved to be wrong-headed fear-mongering that cost the government much in terms of monies and good will. One wonders if the Patriot Act will have the same, deserved fate or if it will continue to exert its pernicious influence on our citizens and our foreign affairs.
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 21, 2008 1:53 PM
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As much as I admire Alexander Hamilton, when he convinced the Federal government to assume the debt of the colonies, the transfer of wealth from the poor to the wealthy classes was accelerated and consolidated and has continued apace. That is what we are seeing in our present 20th and 21st century wars--the wealthy classes flourish and prosper while the masses suffer financially and pay dearly with their lives. Consolidation of wealth is consolidation of power, which the powerful will never relinquish, unless forced to! Hamilton claimed he feared the so-called masses, and Jefferson railed against it, albeit superficially. Civil liberties will always be threatened when the people in power want to keep their power!
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 16, 2008 11:27 AM
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We are lazy and self serving, letting the politicans
> s run rampant. We talk about 'their' duties, but
> ignore our own. This mess we are in is because we
> forgot about those men who devoted their lives to
> creating the United States, and what they stood for.
As sad as it is, I have to agree 100%. We really have lost our way, deviating from the original path laid out for us so long ago. Now we've lost our way and need to find our way back.
> I am ashamed to have let them down, as should all
> l of us. It is a time to get tough, and vote leaders
> who are not doing their job out of office if
> necessary, to impeach the highest office when our
> constitutional rights have been stripped away. Doing
> this while we still can. We are in dire trouble and
> d it will get worse unless we do something very soon.
We ARE in trouble. I don't think it's hopeless, like I said, I think we've lost our way but I have faith that we can find our way back. Question is, will the upcoming November elections spell relief or more chaos, depending on who is elected?
We need to be strong
> here first, we can then be strong to the rest of the
> world. This is what our forefathers would have wanted.
It really does begin at home. You can't fix a problem if you're messed up yourself, which is the cruel irony here. The enormous mess in Iraq is proof positive of that. We're stuck there. We need to leave but we can't. If we do, Iraq will plunge into a hellish mess even worse than it's in now. Some say let them fix their own problems, but we exacerbated it by invading, so we need to be part of the solution before we can leave. It's naive to think that if we leave them to their own devices that it won't bite us in the rear at home, because it will. I hate the war there also, and I want us out as much as the next person, but I don't see how we can.
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Host_Ginna
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 11, 2008 11:07 PM
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How can we possibly be not only the most powerful nation in the world but more importantly, the most respected and the example of how a true Republic works, if we allow torture and attack countries without cause. It make us not much better than some of the countries we criticize,
Issues at hand are not just about torture, they are also about holding prisioners indefinetly without proof or charges of wrong doing, not being allowed to retain counsel. It is about putting to an end the fear tactics perpetrated on us by our leaders, to control our thinking, it is about standing up to them. It is about us as American citizens being the best example of freedom and civilized behavior. Our liberties are now most certainly in danger.
Wiretaps are illegal and we are protected against it by our brave, articulate forefathers who worked so hard for us. If you read the law you will see there is no cause to by-pass a warrant. The only reason one would do this would be to avoid a paper trail. Protection is there to allow a decision to wiretap without that warrant, providing one is obtained within 72 hours after the wiretap. This we are protected in the due process clause of the 14th amendment of the United States Constitution.
When those in power constantly work to ignore or find the loop holes in our precious set of rights, then it is time to take that power away from them. Which leads us to the responsibility of we the people. Our fault lies in complacency, and self chosen ignorance, and by not researching the truth. We are lazy and self serving, letting the politicans run rampant. We talk about 'their' duties, but ignore our own. This mess we are in is because we forgot about those men who devoted their lives to creating the United States, and what they stood for. I am ashamed to have let them down, as should all of us. It is a time to get tough, and vote leaders who are not doing their job out of office if necessary, to impeach the highest office when our constitutional rights have been stripped away. Doing this while we still can. We are in dire trouble and it will get worse unless we do something very soon.
We must get out of a war we have no business being in, fix our country, the middle class, make our economy strong again, concentrate on families, rewarding moms for staying home, provide affordable housing for families, let's build up our schools and health care for all. These are not give away programs, these are insurance policies for America, and it is the peoples money we will do it with. We need to reduce our over inflated government spending, stop giving to the rich, and taking from the over burdened middle class, and we must keep our military strong, staying out of the business of other nations. We must respect the American citizen by not tolerating any illegal alien. We need to be strong here first, we can then be strong to the rest of the world. This is what our forefathers would have wanted.
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 11, 2008 3:24 PM
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I believe now as I did during the Vietnam war, the more those in power say it is wrong to dissent the more voices must be heard whether they are in agreement or not. This country was born in dissent, and we as citizens cannot be allowed to be buffaloed by those in power and allow fear to turn us into a police state. All have an opinion, and all have the right to be heard. This country cannot go the way of other countries and liberty must be a right and all must be equal regardless of who and what they are. Our leaders must be responsible for there actions, and must be held accountable for there own actions right or wrong. No one criticizes the armed forces, they criticize those who send the armed forces to places they should not believe. Those patriots who serve should not ever be forgotten and left to suffer.
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 9, 2008 11:32 AM
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> Watching John Adams reminds me how much we have
> disagraced our country with the rasing of our
> children. As a nation we should be ashamed of
> ourselves in this area and the first order of
> business should be putting families and children back
> into the equation. We must find a way to teach our
> children respect and discipline. John was firm with
> his children....but it was really Abigal who did the
> rearing. In today's society this is not the
> case...simply due to economics. However, the
> economics of today's children with lead us to ruin.
> Oh how I wish for yes Sir.
I think in alot of ways you are quite correct - kids aren't always receiving the lesson they should be learning from us these days. We live in a disposable, self-centered, material society - and I think with alot of kids there is a sense of "entitlement" that exists. What's missing I think is instilling in our youth a strong and moral work ethic. To get what you want, you need to work your butt off to get it.
Don't rely on others to just give it to you. If you want to be wealthy, then go out and do it, by the sweat of your own brow and pride in your heart. I think in a society of lotteries, 15 minutes of fame reality shows, YouTube and MySpace, this message is kind of lost on alot of them.
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Host_Ginna
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 6, 2008 10:49 PM
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The public's liberty is, was and always will be in danger from those in power and must constantly be held in check by the "checks and balances" set forth by the founding fathers! There never will be a time when public liberty and the powerhungry will not be at odds - that's simply human nature.
There was a reason the idealistic were the leaders of our country's origin. We would never have come to be if not for their faith, brilliance and courage.
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 6, 2008 6:33 PM
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Watching John Adams reminds me how much we have disagraced our country with the rasing of our children. As a nation we should be ashamed of ourselves in this area and the first order of business should be putting families and children back into the equation. We must find a way to teach our children respect and discipline. John was firm with his children....but it was really Abigal who did the rearing. In today's society this is not the case...simply due to economics. However, the economics of today's children with lead us to ruin. Oh how I wish for yes Sir.
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Re: Threats to Individual Rights - Now and Then
Apr 4, 2008 7:43 PM
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I must apologise to the strong women that make this country great. Laura Linney's portrayal of Abigail shows how important our companions and soulmates our in shaping the destiny of this country. When I see the widows and mothers of our fallen soldiers in Afganistan, Iraq and yes other secret wars (like in Colombia). Their suffering, endurance, love, fortitude, and any other word that describes their golden attributes is not enough to praise them. Sisters we love you.
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