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Do you think American troops have a different attitude towards war than their predecessors?
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Posts:
559
Registered:
1/17/08
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(31 of 31)
Aug 7, 2008 5:09 PM
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Thanks for the explanations, they really helped me to understand better!
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Posts:
108
Registered:
7/12/08
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(30 of 31)
Aug 1, 2008 4:11 PM
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"How do you differentiate between POG and REMF?"
I think that for most folks when they think POG they think the type of job someone has. Combat arms types are usually seen as not being POG's. All others are.
Certainly in the Corps there is a pecking order. There are the grunts and then those who support the grunts. Those support folks like the tankers and the reconners are not POGs. The supply guy or the PR guy is.
I know POGs who have been in Iraq and have seen one heck of a lot of combat.
REMF I think most folks would agree is someone who does not get shot at regularly or put themselves in a place where they might be shot at regularly.
In VN if someone went out with us on a mission 1 or 3 times we still saw them as a remf. If they were going out all the time they were not.
Its that element of being outside the wire hunting.
This POG Remf stuff is a silly but fun discussion. Why anyone would take this real serious or really care is beyond me.
Hey a tip of the hat to anyone that goes. No matter what their job. As long as they showed up and did not drop something heavy on their foot to avoid the war deployment its all good.
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Posts:
24
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7/30/08
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(29 of 31)
Aug 1, 2008 1:09 PM
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In theatres of war where there are really no (or poorly defined) front lines, such as RVN and Iraq, being a REMF ain't completely what it used to be, I suspect.
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21
Registered:
11/4/06
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(28 of 31)
Aug 1, 2008 10:36 AM
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BTDTGuy,
How do you differentiate between POG and REMF? A Combat Correspondent (PAO) is surely a POG and a REMF, but can attach to any unit at any time. I went through SOC qual with the MEU as part of the boat team and TRAP, so that if need be, I could attach during real-world Ops. But at the end of the day, I'm taking notes. What about Motor T? do they get any love? Arty? Air Wing?
I would say that a POG is someone more concerned about their Marine Corps "knowledge" and shining boots then knowing how to call for fire or read a map.
That's just me. And in the show you see grunts that act like POG's.
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23
Registered:
7/30/08
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(27 of 31)
Jul 31, 2008 3:43 PM
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Gotcha
--
Yoo-hoo
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Posts:
108
Registered:
7/12/08
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(26 of 31)
Jul 31, 2008 1:30 PM
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> I've got a question, maybe its stupid but...
>
> Well okay its stupid, but could POG reffer to someone
> within the Marine Corps if they have a desk job?
>
> --
> Yoo-hoo
POG=People Other Than Grunt is a popular defination
But Pogue can have a broder context.
So yes a desk guy in the Corps would be a POG or a Pogue. As would anyone in the Corps who was not in the Combat Arms. Tankers are not grunts but they are not Pogues either.
A bone of contention within the Corps where so many bought the recruiters "Every Marine A Rifleman" hook line and sinker.
POG or Pogue is not to be confused with someone being a REMF. A pogue could be knee deep in the fighting.
A REMF by defination is not.
Got that now?
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23
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7/30/08
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(25 of 31)
Jul 31, 2008 1:14 PM
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I've got a question, maybe its stupid but...
Well okay its stupid, but could POG reffer to someone within the Marine Corps if they have a desk job?
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Yoo-hoo
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108
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7/12/08
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(24 of 31)
Jul 31, 2008 12:04 PM
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There is an interview in the Marine Corps Times with the SgtMaj of the Marine Corps. He watched 15 minutes of the first epi and turned it off because it was not a representation of his Marine Corps. He hates it.
My guess is that the SgtMaj is a POG. He is sure upper management.
There is also some email going around sent out by some PR flack for the Marine Corps. It 2nd's the SgtMaj's view.
Any really honest look at men at war, how they act and what happens to them emotionally, will not be loved by HQ.
HQ is worried about recruitment, Moms, appropations, image.
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24
Registered:
7/30/08
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(23 of 31)
Jul 31, 2008 11:07 AM
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BTDT, what is your source that the "Marine Corps as an organization is not a big fan of this series"?
I saw nothing about it on the USMC website for example.
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23
Registered:
7/30/08
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(22 of 31)
Jul 31, 2008 12:15 AM
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If you're havin' girl problems I feel bad for you, son
I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one
I got the rap patrol on the gat patrol
Foes that wanna make sure my casket's closed
Rap critics that say he's "Money Cash Hoes"
I'm from the hood stupid what type of facts are those
If you grew up with holes in your zapatos
You'd celebrate the minute you was havin' dough
I'm like f ck critics you can kiss my whole asshole
If you don't like my lyrics you can press fast forward
Got beef with radio if I don't play they show
They don't play my hits well I don't give a shit so
Rap mags try and use my black ass
So advertisers can give 'em more cash for ads...fu kers
I don't know what you take me as
or understand the intelligence that Jay-Z has
I'm from rags to riches nigga I ain't dumb
I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one
Hit me
-The Great Jay Z
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Yoo-hoo
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Posts:
1,386
Registered:
10/30/05
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(21 of 31)
Jul 29, 2008 1:51 PM
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On topic:
>"Do you think American troops have a different attitude towards war than their predecessors?"
A quote from one of my favorite poets, Kipling, who had great insight into the future:
Arithmetic on the Frontier:
"A great and glorious thing it is
To learn, for seven years or so,
The Lord knows what of that and this,
Ere reckoned fit to face the foe --
The flying bullet down the Pass,
That whistles clear: "All flesh is grass."
Three hundred pounds per annum spent
On making brain and body meeter
For all the murderous intent
Comprised in "villanous saltpetre!"
And after -- ask the Yusufzaies
What comes of all our 'ologies.
A scrimmage in a Border Station --
A canter down some dark defile --
Two thousand pounds of education
Drops to a ten-rupee jezail --
The Crammer's boast, the Squadron's pride,
Shot like a rabbit in a ride!
No proposition Euclid wrote,
No formulae the text-books know,
Will turn the bullet from your coat,
Or ward the tulwar's downward blow
Strike hard who cares -- shoot straight who can --
The odds are on the cheaper man.
One sword-knot stolen from the camp
Will pay for all the school expenses
Of any Kurrum Valley scamp
Who knows no word of moods and tenses,
But, being blessed with perfect sight,
Picks off our messmates left and right.
With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem,
The troop-ships bring us one by one,
At vast expense of time and steam,
To slay Afridis where they run.
The "captives of our bow and spear"
Are cheap -- alas! as we are dear."
Joseph Rudyard Kipling (December 30, 1865?January 18, 1936)
--
I, Beagle CMXIV, am the author of this post; opinions expressed are my own.
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Posts:
733
Registered:
1/17/08
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(20 of 31)
Jul 26, 2008 12:43 PM
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> If you ask me, the thing that has changed most in war
> is the media coverage and the willingness of people
> to talk about the things that happen while the
> conflict is still going on. War hasn't fundamentally
> changed since people starting chucking rocks at each
> other.
I agree with you that the media is what has changed in the war. The media is out there showing what really goes on. I think people that have not served or do not have any family members or close friends that have served are shocked at what goes on. They just don't get this is how it has always been and it is not going to change. I do hope what will change it that they have working vehicles and the supplies that they need to complete the missions.
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Posts:
19
Registered:
5/15/02
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(19 of 31)
Jul 25, 2008 1:02 PM
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I was just looking up the actor that portrays SgtMaj Sixta. He had a credited role in Glengarry Glenross. And he's been a character actor in just about every hit show on network tv in the last 10 years. Neal Jones.
holy crap, his first credited role was in Dirty Dancing.
I loves me some Sgt Maj. I wonder if he had a hand in developing his speech characteristics, or if the writers/directors told him to play it that way. Every line he speaks comes out hilarious, if you ask me.
Really, that's kind of why I was questioning the character, because he almost seems to be a caricature, or even a comic relief role.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
7/24/08
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(18 of 31)
Jul 24, 2008 10:49 PM
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> The Sgt Maj is not a USMC reconner by training. Nor
> if I remember correctly was he infantry. He was
> assigned to recon as their senior enlisted manager
> but he could have come from the world of admin,
> supply, or some other support activity. There are
> some like him.
You sound so sure about that. I knew John Sixta personally from his days when he was a Marine instructor at the Military FreeFall school. How many non-recon Marines do you know that have been instructors at MFF?? I'd say that his portrayal in Generation Kill is more likely a parody of him vice the way he actually was, but then again, I lost track of him when he was a Gunny so he could have changed.......
This series is really good though. I can appreciate the interactions involved and the reality of the situation has been portrayed very well so far. Hope the excellence continues.
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Posts:
1
Registered:
7/24/08
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(17 of 31)
Jul 24, 2008 10:28 PM
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Yes, and they made Iraq look realistic as well. That scene where there stuck in traffic on the highway looks exactly like the highway to Baghdad.
And SGM all get paid to be pricks. The SGM in We Were Soldiers was another good portrayal of the role they play. "What are you, the weather man?"
As far as the beanies... Believe me when I tell you winters in Kuwait are cold. There's nothing like walking around camp during the day in mud and then walking back over it at night when it's frozen solid into all sorts of ankle twisting configurations. We wore the beanies, but never in the mess hall.
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