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"Generation Kill" follows the highly trained Marines of Recon Battalion through the first 40 days of the Iraq war. Written and executive produced by "The Wire" creators David Simon and Ed Burns, the seven- part miniseries portrays the true story of the young Marines' experience at the spear of the American invasion. Premieres Sunday, July 13 http://www.hbo.com/generationkill/
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514
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(178 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Oct 3, 2008 12:27 PM
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> At the tender
> > age of 11 and 6 they know that it is the
> military
> > that protects us.
>
> It is intelligence that protects us. Intelligent
> people making intelligent decisions, passing that
> intelligence on to those around them.
>
> What happens when not enough intelligence goes
> around? How protected and safe are you then?
Not very. I would point out several examples of intelligence failure - September 11th, WMD in Iraq, etc.
There were plenty of missed opportunities and simply blatant "missteps" from an intelligence perspective regarding 9/11. In Iraq, there were no WMDs, Bush's reasoning based on "intelligence" he received to enter the country to begin with. Bush's own human intelligence and those around him was cast in doubt and didn't do much to reassure me that he was protecting my family. We're protected every day by the men and women who put on that uniform and put their lives on the line every day. They are a special kind of people, who go in, knowing the risk so we can sit here at our computers and type out our thoughts and opinions freely. I am grateful beyond words to them for their sacrifices.
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Host_Ginna
HBO Forums Host
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67
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(177 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Sep 3, 2008 3:01 PM
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During these times everyone should
> remember, this was war and this war was done with
> civilians right next to combatants.
Kind of makes you think, why don't they train for situations like this so they can reduce the number of civilian casualties.
Oh wait, they do!
National Training Center (NTC) at Fort Irvine, California, trains for desert warfare, and trains leaders in how to handle and be aware of civilians.
And I do not recall any mentioning of laying thousands of pounds of explosives in open desert to suppress a tank column, that is actually a stationary village.
In war people
> will die and it is sad, but that doesn't stop the
> mission.
Didn't stop the Allies in WWII after they fire-bombed Dresden, or every Japanese city above the size of 10,000 people.
When the Chinese pushed the U.N. forces all the way to the end of the penisula, the U.S. was all set to launch an obvious assault and keep the war going in Korea.
"We destroyed the village to save the village." Didn't stop the mission the Vietnam War.
Personal example: senior NCO I had: "In Bosnia, sometimes we would be in a building and get shot at. And sometimes it would be kids firing. I would shoot back, and did not care who I hit, I was trying to stay alive and keep the rest of my squad alive."
One thing this show does point out the
> mission is done reguardless. I would point out to
> anyone that has never been in the Military that what
> a soldier is asked to do can be a terrible thing but
> the mission comes first.
And the Geneva Convention is followed and Rules of Engagement (ROE) are enforced. That way a prisoner, refugee, surrending enemy combatant, etc, is treated with dignity and given support. That means, when the conflict is over, the people who end up having to occupy the conquered land are looked upon a bit more kindly by the local population, not with fear or hatred.
It also serves to show who is more righteous on the battlefield, which is what wins hearts and minds outside of the conflict.
This show, unfortunately, just serves to show us why the rest of the world thinks poorly on the decision to invade Iraq.
We trust the orders coming
> down are for the good of all. Let politicians
> debate if they are good or not. I grade this show a
> C.
There is a reason why I will not join any political party now.
After listening to how both Republicans and Democrats used military service members as political pawns to bolster themselves or their party politics, after seeing how the military-industrial complex works with the political scene "for jobs for constituents," after seeing how ill-prepared the military was prior to going into Iraq a second time (remember how long the build up was for the first Gulf War?), I am sickened by it all.
>  It really burns me when I read some of these
> posts . You people did not see the low ... barbaric
> acts the Iraqi's and the terrorists did to their OWN
> islamics ! The white house held the hands of the
> military there .... caused unknown deaths and
> casualties we would not have sustained ! Do some of
> you weak minded people really know what WAR is ? We
> played by the rules ... and more .... they were less
> than animals in their slaughter .
And where is it the business of the U.S. to get involved in their lives? Why doesn't the U.S. do this in Africa?
> The biggest problem I saw with this show was they
> y made those fighting heroes look like incompetant
> goof balls too much .... not true ! How do you think
> we took that country so quick ?
Ever watch "Band of Brothers"? "Blackhawk Down"? "We Were Soldiers..."?
Ever read "Panzer Battles" by COL Mellenthin? "The Delta Force" by Beckwith? "Blackhawk Down" by Mark Bowden? "Japan's War" by Raymond Hoyt?
Incompetence is part of the spectrum of humanity. While you seemed to only notice "incompetent" leaders, I guess the "good leaders" just don't register on your radar.
Why?
Because they are the people who know their jobs, do their jobs, and often times end up having to pick up the slack from their incompetent counterparts.
I saw this in training units (by the cadre) and in garrison units. And I have a strong feeling you find the same thing in combat units (which BoB and GK show). Heck, I'm reading a book "Writers on World War II" and in the opening days, a Polish Sergeant Major, while hiding under a tree canopy from German Messcherschmitts flying overhead, started telling a woman to smother her infant to quell it's crying lest the flyers overhead "hear" them.
Any country can defeat any other nation, it is just a matter of ingredients. Smart leaders know how to change those ingredients to achieve the desired result.
The problem is, war breeds death and destruction. You don't earn "veteran" status without someone losing something.
In my opinion and I
> do everytime being an old vet .... I salute and thank
> every person in uniform I see on the streets ... GOD
> BLESS them all .... and YOU should too !!! While
> you're sitting there in your living rooms or sleeping
> safely in your beds .... remember they're still over
> there being mutilated and killed every single moment
> for you !
And while I sit here, and think about those service members overseas, I think about how they made the choice to serve.
Meanwhile, in my state, there is such a high number of inmates, and from the same backgrounds as the servicemembers.
So, should those prisoners thank the servicemembers for creating an environment that forced them to choose "answering to the man and potentially getting killed" and "answering to yourself, taking what you can get, and whatever happens, who cares"?
As I look at the newspaper and see that the unemployment rate is around 12-15% in my county (where it usually is, regardless of how well the rest of the country does) and I see people in positions of authority more because of who they are associated with, less then the quality of their character, I should also thank veterans for helping to create this country and make it the way it is?
As far as veterans go (since I classify as one), you got to remember this, they are the tools and instruments of the government. Army Corps of Engineers can rebuild Europe and Japan, but can't handle Afghanistan, Iraq, and New Orleans.
Service members face "stop loss" so instead of them getting out and joining the U.S. economy, working, making money, and bringing their experience to the local community, they are held like slave labor so the military can accomplish some goal or mission, which may or may not be important.
If that person leaves the military, that creates an opening, a demand, an opportunity for another service member to advance, to learn something new, to advance their career, and potentially do the same as their predecssor.
Should I be thanking veterans for this as well?
Just don't forget the thousands of Army and
> Navy also dying for you . Take a few lousey dollars
> you'll be spending partying and boozing at the bars
> and clubs and donate for mere extremely minor
> luxuries for them ... batteries and little things are
> a god send .... believe it or not . And all the few
> dollars are tax deductible if you need to get
> reimbursed .
Yes, give money to Service members who should know better to learn about what they are getting into, prepare themselves, and ensure that they have all the equipment they need when they get to a combat zone. (Because when you expect your superiors to know everything and keep your prepared, who ends up looking the fool?)
Course, it's better for those service members to waste their money drinking, chasing women, accessorizing their car or body or motorcycle or entertainment center or whatever other silly thing the unmarried service members spend money on. Right?
For those of you not in the know, when you join the military, like CPL Person mentioned, you lose part of your brain. You get treated like a child, regardless of how old you are, and yet are expected to act an adult and kill when the time comes.
Nothing like joining what you think is going to be the most elite, prestige filled, and amazing group of people ever, and find out it is all the people who didn't do anything, or couldn't, in high school, and most of them are in charge.
-------------------------
At the tender
> age of 11 and 6 they know that it is the military
> that protects us.
It is intelligence that protects us. Intelligent people making intelligent decisions, passing that intelligence on to those around them.
What happens when not enough intelligence goes around? How protected and safe are you then?
--
Sky
http://www.youtube.com/user/skyanimal
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Edited by SkyAnimal at 09/03/2008 12:03 PM PDT
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Edited by SkyAnimal at 09/03/2008 12:17 PM PDT
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Posts:
1
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8/27/08
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(176 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 27, 2008 10:04 PM
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I myself am not a marine wife but am an army wife and this show how absolutly captured my heart. I love this show so much and I will beg of HBO to pick this show up for yet another season. I hated that this show aired its new episodes we had army baseball games so i had to miss it, but i would watch every night after to catch this show. I can see so many of the higher ranking men that I know from my husbands unit in these men and I love it! please continute to play this show!
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16
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8/9/08
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Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 27, 2008 12:30 PM
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Mercenary1947,
I salute you and your family for your undoubtly loyal service. I too come from a line of military service members and firmly stand behind them 100%. When I was in I pushed myself to the brink and loved every minute of it. My husband is now on his second tour in Iraq and I have never been prouder of him. My children are still young but they too want to join the military, we teach them that not only should they respect the police officers and such but they need to show respect to the military as well. At the tender age of 11 and 6 they know that it is the military that protects us.
To all that do not respect all branches of the military just remember...They fight so that you don't have to.
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1
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8/27/08
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(174 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 27, 2008 9:17 AM
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It really burns me when I read some of these posts . You people did not see the low ... barbaric acts the Iraqi's and the terrorists did to their OWN islamics ! The white house held the hands of the military there .... caused unknown deaths and casualties we would not have sustained ! Do some of you weak minded people really know what WAR is ? We played by the rules ... and more .... they were less than animals in their slaughter .
The biggest problem I saw with this show was they made those fighting heroes look like incompetant goof balls too much .... not true ! How do you think we took that country so quick ? In my opinion and I do everytime being an old vet .... I salute and thank every person in uniform I see on the streets ... GOD BLESS them all .... and YOU should too !!! While you're sitting there in your living rooms or sleeping safely in your beds .... remember they're still over there being mutilated and killed every single moment for you ! Just don't forget the thousands of Army and Navy also dying for you . Take a few lousey dollars you'll be spending partying and boozing at the bars and clubs and donate for mere extremely minor luxuries for them ... batteries and little things are a god send .... believe it or not . And all the few dollars are tax deductible if you need to get reimbursed .
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Posts:
8
Registered:
8/4/08
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(173 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 26, 2008 1:04 PM
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Pat Dollard (dot com) did some great reporting about the Marines in Iraq as well. I've been waiting for hist documentary called Young Americans to come out forever now but it seems its hard to get funding for a documentary about a forgotten war.
MTV did a true life about coming home from Iraq and one of the Marines featured in that is also in this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tXUvxiVshY - link to the trailer.
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Posts:
1
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1/2/02
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(172 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 26, 2008 1:02 PM
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I LOVE this show!! I would love to see HBO continue on with a series. I even bought the book, and can barely put it down.
I felt proud of the Marines and totally frustrated with the reason for this war and the people in command, at the same time. Thank goodness there are some fantastic Marine's out there. I've never felt so proud to be an American. Despite the fact that the rest of the world hates us.
Keep up the good work.
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2
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8/26/08
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(171 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 26, 2008 11:53 AM
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I LOVED IT! They have to make more episodes.... They left off where they could pick back up and go for a long time if they wanted to. I am a soldier and I have been there, and for me this show hit home. And I think we need more of it. PLEASE BRING IT BACK!!!
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Posts:
13
Registered:
8/11/08
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(170 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 26, 2008 8:52 AM
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Sxipro - I loved it!! It was totally from Tool!! the way the cry echoed gave it away.
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Edited by cahinojosa at 08/26/2008 10:28 AM PDT
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Posts:
14
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7/29/08
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(169 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 26, 2008 5:18 AM
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Recon,
What do you mean not this incompetent? That place was a zoo in March 2003. Officers were scrambling to get missions to get medals and there was little regard for the safety of troops in a unknown warzone. I can personally attest for 3 of the stupidest moves in my miltitary unit....and we were name Army Aviation Unit of the Year!
I had an Captain almost shoot 6 people in a foxhole, starting with me....
I had the same officer lose his weapon, thankfully it was attached to a lanyard, so he just drug it down the road in his hummve till we stopped him
And my favorite....we had a Major volunteer Aviation Pouges to do a cordon and knock in Mosul for a large infantry mission.....thankfully he was laughed at by the brigade commander on the radio and that idea was nixed....just weeks before we were headed home.
There was, of course the other things like NCOs losing rifles, our commo guy getting his run over by a tank, us forgetting to pack slings for the helicopters, our company commander wondering why we shouldn't just leave the doors off our trucks....etc, etc.
Incompetent Leaders? I think anyone there knows this show actually goes light on the subject...
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Posts:
2
Registered:
8/24/08
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(168 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 24, 2008 11:35 PM
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You know I'm not a Marine, but I'm a nurse a have seen a lot of trauma to innocent people the war of the streets you might say. The violence that was shown in this series was very fascinating to me. Strange I know, but to see young men fighting for our freedoms and the freedoms of others made me understand a little better this senseless war, other then our need of oil! I had the pleasure of working with some Marines and they were like overprotective brothers to me and the thought of them going through this war without our total support saddens me. The men that I have met would never intentionally hurt anyone unless need be, but accidents happen! war happens! people die and people live. I guess it sounds cold but I respect those men who fight more then our government officials in D.C.
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10
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7/28/08
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(167 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 24, 2008 11:21 PM
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I finished watching tonight and have mixed feelings about the show. The creators of this show definately showed their true colors at the end. Everyone gets torn by the heart when others are killed, harmed, or oppressed. During these times everyone should remember, this was war and this war was done with civilians right next to combatants. In war people will die and it is sad, but that doesn't stop the mission. One thing this show does point out the mission is done reguardless. I would point out to anyone that has never been in the Military that what a soldier is asked to do can be a terrible thing but the mission comes first. We trust the orders coming down are for the good of all. Let politicians debate if they are good or not. I grade this show a C.
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6
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6/17/08
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(166 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 24, 2008 8:35 PM
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Having watched this series I'm not sure what the point of it is? It's no secret that the USMC is not staffed with brain surgeons - especially in the 0311 field. But give the guys a break. Their job is to execute the mission-not question it. Follow orders. I don't know where the officers model's came from. In my years with the Bn the leadership was good, bad and ugly - but not this incompetent. The SNCOs watched out for the new 2nd Lts. They had to run a few patrols with another Co before they assumed command of a team. 1st Recon was outstanding and is outstanding today. Still, I'm not sure what the point is?
__
BT
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Posts:
27
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8/10/08
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(165 of 178)
Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 19, 2008 10:16 PM
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Yes, the show makes me want to be a Marine. The honesty, the fact that they hold such respect for each other as pople beyond their race, beliefs and that they are so disciplined and smart! The sense of adventure and the idea that you can push your limits to explore your capacity is awesome. We need more of all that in general out here in the civilian world. We with our sheltered lives where we hurt each other's feelings. I love how they play very openly with tabu subjects like sex and race and yet move beyond them in the way they relate to each other as people. The vision of such a truly diversified workforce is very admirable!! They are also savvy about how their situation. I wonder how much different women experience the marines.
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Posts:
1
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8/18/08
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Re: Generation Kill: About the Show
Aug 18, 2008 11:48 PM
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Did anybody notice in "Stay Frosty" when the babies were crying that they took a sound bite from a "Tool" song?
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