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In the week and a half since our Hollywood Reporter ad was published, as a group, we have experiences a profound shift in our focus. Discussions on the "Hollywood Report Ad Fund Is On" thread have changed from doing another ad to finding creative solutions to the obstacles blocking the production of a second season of John From Cincinnati.
The purpose of this thread is for the brainstorming and planning of our new endeavor.
Work here, Cass.
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Work here, Cass.
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Oct 7, 2008 9:50 PM
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Here is the first draft of the issues that have been raised about the ZZ documents. I would appreciate input concerning the "Issues and Proposed Resolutions" section for each point.
http://www.savejfc.net/zenzuu/issues.html
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Work here, Cass.
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Oct 6, 2008 1:38 AM
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I'm not adverse to the discussion taking place here on the HBO boards. I just didn't want people to think that they had to participate in it because it was on the same thread with all our other projects. Saving SaveJFC.net is not the same as saving JOHN.
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Work here, Cass.
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Oct 5, 2008 2:12 AM
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Skor,
I really do appreciate you point of view and want to encourage your participation as we identify to problems in these document. You raised a number of great points and you did take the time to go to ZZ and check it out.
Would you please take a little bit of time to at least identify what parts of the documents concern you so I can have these issues addressed?
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Work here, Cass.
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Oct 5, 2008 1:54 AM
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Trishah-
I think that having a thread on SaveJFC to post questions and concerns about ZZ is a great way to help people learn about the company, and its goals and expectations.
My earlier post was not intended to stop or dissuade people from participating in ZZ, but I did want to raise my concerns. Thank you for understanding.
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"Laugh or go crazy..."
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Oct 4, 2008 7:49 PM
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I want to thank everyone who has taken an interest in the "ZenZuu Project". No matter what your opinion I am really glad that everyone feels safe enough here to voice your concerns.
Update:
I have spoken with Dr.J. at some length and this is the course of action that we are going to take...
Dr.J will use his connections with ZenZuu management to have our concerns addressed directly. Joe Risk, from the Zenzuu videos, is a close business associate of Tommy Vu (founder of ZZ) and speaks to him daily. Dr. J and Joe speak with each other often. Joe is very busy so if we are going to approach him with our concerns and, ultimately Tommy Vu, we need to have our concerns clearly defined so not to waste theirs or our time.
So our first step is to put together a list of our concerns with their legal documents. Dr. J has also offered to have a conference call with everyone of interest.
I have started a thread over on the SaveJFC forum to address specific concerns in the legal ZZ documents. I think that it would be best to keep these discussions off this board.
SaveJFC Forum: Issues with ZenZuu Terms & Privacy Docs
Copies of all four documents can be found at:
http://www.savejfc.net/zenzuu/terms.html
As we build our list of concerns they will be posted at: http://www.savejfc.net/zenzuu/issues.html I have not made a direct link to this page on the site so you will have to bookmark it or link through from the forum.
I'd appreciate your help in getting our list together as soon as possible. We have a wonderful opportunity to influence the direction of ZZ while it is still very young and relatively small. Please help us make the most of it.
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Work here, Cass.
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Edited by SaveJFC at 10/04/2008 9:30 PM PDT
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Oct 4, 2008 1:42 AM
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There was a lot posted here that I had to digest, so it's taken me a while to reply. Also, I wanted to talk to Dr. J, the pastor who does the 8pm EST conference calls, to get his input. He is blind and has been on a train from Orlando back to Ohio for the past 46 hours so I wasn't able to contact him about these issues until now.
First, he is going to put me in touch with a gentleman who has more in-depth knowledge of the issues raised here.
Second, Dr. J says that he was in a meeting with Tommy Vu the founder of ZZ and the issues about the Privacy Statement were brought up. Tommy Vu said that no one in ZenZuu International would allow peoples personal information go outside the company. When the documents refer to "3rd party companies" what is being referred to are the other entities under the "corporate umbrella" of ZenZuu International, namely MyATM and ZZPartners. Both of these are separate companies but come under the corporate umbrella.
Dr. J said they simply wouldn't do such a thing bc it would tarnish their name. Dr. J said, "All necessary modifications will be made in keeping with their [your] expectations."
Of course this does not answer your specific concerns about the wording of the documents or your fears that the underlying business model is not sound.
I have put up a page under http://www.savejfc.net/zenzuu that explains the compensation plan more clearly. Hopefully this will answer some of the questions that were raised.
Personally, I (obviously) do not have the fears some others seem to have about ZenZuu. I am not being pollyanne-ish because I do acknowledge that there are things that need to be worked out with the company. However I think the basic structure is sound and the people I've met seem very trustworthy. I am comfortable staying with it until I'm proved wrong.
Now, for the suggestion that we find another way to raise the necessary money for the site... That would be great! I am all for looking at any and all options. Let's come up with some ideas.
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Work here, Cass.
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Edited by SaveJFC at 10/03/2008 11:17 PM PDT
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Oct 2, 2008 5:58 PM
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Sven makes some good points here.
I have also been wondering about ZenZuu. I visited the site yesterday and initiated the sign up using a pseudonym. I went through the beginning stages of the process so that I could read their EULA, then quit. I did not use any words or names that would associate me with this board or SaveJFC. I had some reservations about their privacy statement and almost posted about that here, but decided I would wait and learn more.
But since it has now been brought up here on the board, I must say that I am in agreement with Sven. After visiting the ZenZuu site, I also was left with the belief that this may not be our best option for funding SaveJFC.
I may be wrong here, but I do not think that raising money from this site will be as easy as it initially appears. Nor do I believe that it is the right way for us to accomplish our goals.
I am reminded of those pop-ups that offer ?free ipods? or whatever. Those offers are neither illegal nor entirely false, but to actually obtain the prize one must complete form after form, each time giving away a great deal of personal information. The process is so tedious that few people actually finish, but by then a great deal of info has all ready been collected. Those sites make their money by selling info as leads for other advertisers.
The gimmick with ZenZuu is to keep bringing in more and more people with hopes that they will then become involved with offerings and networking opportunities on the site. They do not deny being a pyramid, but because they do not accept cash, it falls within the law. But pyramids only work up to a point, then there is enormous pressure to continue recruiting.
If you google ZenZuu you will see that they are linking their name to various search terms, something I consider to be a despicable practice. I understand that this most likely is being done by individuals and not the company itself, but it certainly complicates things and adds another layer of commercialism to what is all ready a commercially clogged internet. For me, that was the point when I became convinced that this was either a less than reliable company, or one whose participants are so crazed with competition that they engage in something less than ethical internet behavior. You will also find identical "personal" statements praising the company on various blogs.
I am not saying this is a fraud, but I am not convinced that it is a venture that we should be supporting.
I would like to see further discussion of funding options.
Does anyone have ideas for an alternative way of raising enough money to ensure the continuation of the SaveJFC site?
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Edited by skordamou at 10/02/2008 3:12 PM PDT
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Oct 2, 2008 3:39 PM
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Dear Trishah,
Your link on the "Save JFC"site is helpful, but unfortunately video doesn't turn on. It's a minor problem though.
I visited the ZenZuu site, read their explanation, browsed their blogs. My impression is still unfavorable, if only because the foundation the site originators build on is a promise of making money. Social networking sites that developed into money making machines (Facebook, etc.) started on innocent and noble, in my opinion, premise of bringing people together. This site IS a pyramid scheme, even that money doesn't go in when one joins. It can work only if every member brings in more, the newbies bring more, and ad infinitum....
Then there is a question of maintaining the traffic, since the ads are coming only if the traffic is good. When people lose interest, the ads stop.
More than 50% of "blogs" on the site are devoted to an idea of making money, and the "easiest way" possible. Will the site develop into a new networking universe? I don't think so, but who I am to predict.... May be it will.
Although, I will not join it. Clicking on your mouse
to make few dollars reminds me of experiments with
mouse (no pun intended) who presses on the lever to get food or to get stimulated.
Humans can do better.
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Edited by svengali2 at 10/02/2008 12:40 PM PDT
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Oct 2, 2008 1:41 PM
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Great! Always glad to help 
I have expanded the ZenZuu pages of the site and have created a whole document that explains the compensation plan that I think clears up a lot of misconceptions.
http://www.savejfc.net/zenzuu
Also, I don't know how this rummer got started but you don't have to wait any particular period of time between logins. You can log in and out one right after the other and do them all within 15mins if you want to get it over with.
More later...
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Work here, Cass.
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Oct 2, 2008 8:48 AM
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Thanks SaveJFC, I don't understand a lot about those kinds of things, so I appreciate you laying it out for me.
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Cissyyost
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Sep 30, 2008 4:20 AM
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Well... How does MySpace and FaceBook make billions of dollars for their owners and shareholders? Ad revenue. Do you always click on ads on MySpace? Probably, rarely. However, advertisers still want you to see their ads. You don't have to click on a movie trailer ad to be influenced to "buy their product". Here is a list of some of the advertisers interested in ZenZuu: Coke, Pepsi, Pampers, United Airlines, Chevrolet, Ford, Toyota, Taco Bell, Burger King, McDonald's, University of Phoenix & Disney.
I understand your skepticism about MLMs. I've lost my fair share of money because of them. I believe ZenZuu is different.
First, you never put any money into it (period). You are sharing in the ad revenue because you are actively going on the site creating traffic and viewing ads. This is what the advertisers are paying for... just like on MySpace.
Second, it is not a pyramid scheme because (a) no one is putting in any money, and, (b) no matter how many levels are below you that most you can get a percentage of is up to the 19 level. If it were a pyramid scheme you would put money in and the level would go on forever.
Third, the "redistribution of wealth" means that 80% of the ad revenue will be paid to the active members instead of going into corporate coffers.
Lastly, to answer your question, there are a number of other ways to make money as a member of ZZ, including getting a commission if you sign up advertisers.
Bottom-line: What do you really have to lose but a few minutes of time every month? If it doesn't work what is the downside?
After getting to know some of the people who have been working with Tommy Vu (founder of ZenZuu) I can only say that they feel very "JOHN-like" to me.
Personally, one of the first things I did was get on a conference call (see below) and hear Dr. J, a pastor who is helping other small, struggling congregations get onto ZZ in order to support their ministries. I was... am... so impressed with him and what he is trying to do. I believe he is working in the spirit of JOHN. And I wouldn't have ever brought it to the boards if I did not think it was in keeping with the basic tenets of our show.
Please do not sign up if you have misgivings. If you are not comfortable now, wait and see what happens.
___________________________
Every day: Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat. (No call on Sun)
Calls Start at:
Pacific Times: 8am Pacific, 10am Pacific, 12 PM Pacific, 2 PM Pacific, 3 PM Pacific, 4 PM Pacific , 5 PM Pacific (call for religious organizations), 6 PM Pacific, 8 PM Pacific.
Eastern Times: 11 am, 1pm, 3pm, 5pm, 6pm, 7pm, 8pm (call for religious organizations), 9pm, 11pm.
DIAL: 646-519-5860 THEN PIN NUMBER 3214# TO LISTEN.
Once you are in the conference, we would appreciate you dial *6 to mute your phone. To UnMute, dial *6 , Then you can ask a question. Be on time, each call will last 30 minutes.
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Work here, Cass.
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Edited by SaveJFC at 09/30/2008 1:55 AM PDT
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Sep 30, 2008 12:51 AM
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Dear Trishah,
You posted an idea for everyone on the board - to join in signing in to the site that is supposedly not only provides income for members for doing nothing but also works on the "redistribution of wealth", as you said. It was presented as a drive to help support the Save JFC site.
I don't have time to really check out the site claims, but not being born yesterday, can't help but notice that it organized as a pyramid scheme, in many instances proven to be a scam. There are many examples of it. That seems to be the same trick - bring more "converts" to increase your pay.... It does not sound as a reliable, honest business, in my opinion, but it could be because I don't have enough information.
If you could explain in more details how this site is supposed to "redistribute wealth" and why would anyone be willing to pay money to people that log in but don't click on ads and as a result don't bring revenue? Or is there something else the site is producing that I don't know about besides placing advertisements?
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(1497 of 1509)
Sep 30, 2008 12:21 AM
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> "This still means that you will need to do your 30
> log ins before midnight (in your time zone) 30 Sept.
> to get your share of the ad revenue for the month.
>
>
> ...Ding, Ding, Ding , I've got my 30 log ins
> Where is my $$$$$?
> ...huh, it was invested in a money market??
> 
Even though I think you were joking I thought it would be good to give an answer...
The website has only been up since 08 Aug and the payment software/system has not yet gone online. For those who qualify for Sept (login and out 30 times) they will get one equal share from the ad revenue formula. On 15 October they will put $5000 into the payment system to test to make sure it is working and to fix any problems that may arise. The first real payment will be on 15 November and will be retroactive for everyone who qualified in Aug, Sept and Oct.
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Work here, Cass.
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Sep 29, 2008 9:49 PM
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> "This still means that you will need to do your 30
> log ins before midnight (in your time zone) 30 Sept.
> to get your share of the ad revenue for the month.
>
>
> ...Ding, Ding, Ding , I've got my 30 log ins
> Where is my $$$$$?
> ...huh, it was invested in a money market??
>
good one Myles! LMAO! :P
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Living in the present moment with happiness, awe and no worries as the future. The present moment is all we have!
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Sep 29, 2008 8:58 PM
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"This still means that you will need to do your 30 log ins before midnight (in your time zone) 30 Sept. to get your share of the ad revenue for the month.
...Ding, Ding, Ding , I've got my 30 log ins
Where is my $$$$$?
...huh, it was invested in a money market??
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