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Now that Fidel Castro has officially retired, and Raul Castro has been elected by the Cuban parliament how do you think US/Cuban relations will be affected?
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(35 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 29, 2008 4:38 PM
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> That would certainly be a good start.
The only relationship the U.S. wants with Cuba is slave mater to slave. Open up your country to Starbucks, Walmart and a dictator we support.
Anything else is COMMUNISM.
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" It ain't what you don't know, it's what you know that just ain't so"
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(34 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 29, 2008 4:12 PM
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That would certainly be a good start.
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(33 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 29, 2008 10:23 AM
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> In my opinion, whoever is president needs to take a
> harder stance on human rights issues.
We could start by closing our own detention camps and stop torturing people --- right?
--
"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
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(32 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 29, 2008 10:21 AM
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> The Ugly American has been a phenomenon in the
> Caribean for a century or so.
Yup, and before that it was the Ugly English, and the ugly Dutch, and the Ugly French, and the Ugly Spaniards. Those people can't catch a break.
Conversely though, Barbados farmlands were wiped out during a hurricane. Most of the gentry went to South Carolina to resettle and some signed our Declaration of Independence. So, they only have themselves to blame. 
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"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
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(31 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 11:09 PM
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> And if they make the same demands of us, what are we
> to do?
Ignore it, I guess. Insist that we don't have to comply, because we're the United States and we invented political Freedom, so that makes us exempt from following our own rules. And then we can pretend it's only them who are the hypocrites.
That's our SOP, isn't it?
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(30 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 11:05 PM
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> The political prisoners must be freed, there
> must be free access for the press (as a journalism
> major I root for that), and Cubans must be allowed to
> leave and return home freely. When that happens, THEN
> we can talk.
But it just doesn't work that way. If we wait for progress on their side as a prerequisite for talking, nothing will happen. You see how that's happened with the embargo, right?
OTOH, we didn't have such a policy with the USSR. We recognized them diplomatically. With China, while we refused to recognize them, nothing changed. Then, in the 70's, Nixon went to China. You can chart their progress from that point on, pretty much in a straight line.
If Carter had lifted the embargo at the time of the Mariel boatlift, I think Cuba would be a much different place today. More Free-Market, with Communism probably more or less a nominal political system, like it is in China and VietNam.
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(29 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 10:22 PM
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And if they make the same demands of us, what are we to do?
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(28 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 10:08 PM
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In my opinion, whoever is president needs to take a harder stance on human rights issues. As much as I like a lot of Barack Obama's stances, this is one stance I do not agree with him, and I don't think I'm alone on this. I think there must be preconditions prior to meeting the "Cuban Luigi" (my generation and Super Mario Bros. fans will get the referance). I actually agree with Hillary on this one, and I hardly ever agree with her because I consider her too liberal. The political prisoners must be freed, there must be free access for the press (as a journalism major I root for that), and Cubans must be allowed to leave and return home freely. When that happens, THEN we can talk.
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Edited by airtex94 at 02/28/2008 7:09 PM
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(27 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 9:53 PM
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Your point is valid RC, as far as numbers go.
But there are many that ARE large enough to put a house on or more. In fact US Army and others run airplanes down there to supply small bases. In the name of the War On Drugs, another hoax on the american people.
Sorry for the digression.
The question is american militarism in foreign areas, really. In Gitmo they happen to have a prison camp too. It's in vogue, you know.
The Ugly American has been a phenomenon in the Caribean for a century or so.
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(26 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 8:40 PM
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> Our claim to that land is based upon a few treaties,
> notably one in 1934, but the detention camp itself
> violates the terms of those treaties, which state the
> purpose of the base is for Naval Operations only;
> also the treaty forbids any commercial use or
> operation on it, and we allow several fast-food
> concessions, such as McDonald's, to do business
> there.
The detention camp is an abomination. If we lose a base because of it, so be it.
> I wonder what would happen if Raul served us with
> eviction papers, and then publicly signed a new lease
> for that land with the Venezuelan Navy? They could
> then sue in The Hague. If we lost... which we
> probably would... would we vacate, or prove that we
> don't give a shit about "rule of law" and just
> declare ourselves officially to be the world's new
> pariah?
>
> Must be an idea for a book there...
We did vacate the Philippines and took the floating docks. We also raised a few buildings. There wasn't much left, at the end of the day. If the Cubans had such a case on Gitmo, don't you think the Beard would have tried many years ago?
Sounds like a rather tedious novel.
--
"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
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(25 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 8:11 PM
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> This is like a someone buy a house that you have
> already paid rent on that decides they want to throw
> you out. My first reaction is tough shit.
>
Not really. Cuba is no mere homeowner; they are a sovereign nation. Our Supreme Court has recognized continually the right of Eminent Domain, wherein a government has the authority to take land for its own use and evict whoever happens to be on it, and that's even if it is owned outright. They can certainly terminate a lease under that right. The SCOTUS have recognized that here in the USA, and we have recognized that right of other nations. The only time it's even fuzzy, is when two nations both claim ownership of the land and it hasn't been resolved, such as the Falklands. But the Bush Administration has very clearly declared that specifically GITMO is not US territory, for the purpose of keeping its detention camp and all actions taking place therein beyond the jurisdiction of said US Supreme Court.
Our claim to that land is based upon a few treaties, notably one in 1934, but the detention camp itself violates the terms of those treaties, which state the purpose of the base is for Naval Operations only; also the treaty forbids any commercial use or operation on it, and we allow several fast-food concessions, such as McDonald's, to do business there.
I wonder what would happen if Raul served us with eviction papers, and then publicly signed a new lease for that land with the Venezuelan Navy? They could then sue in The Hague. If we lost... which we probably would... would we vacate, or prove that we don't give a shit about "rule of law" and just declare ourselves officially to be the world's new pariah?
Must be an idea for a book there...
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(24 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 5:28 PM
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> RC
>
> You're posting as though you've never been to the
> Bahamas. They have islands, such as New Providence
> Island, and cays, such as Treasure Cay. It's just
> words because they are both small land masses
> surrounded by water on all sides.
Point being they are not large enough to put a military base on. Most are not large enough to support a small house.
--
"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
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(23 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 5:02 PM
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RC
You're posting as though you've never been to the Bahamas. They have islands, such as New Providence Island, and cays, such as Treasure Cay. It's just words because they are both small land masses surrounded by water on all sides.
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(22 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 5:38 AM
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> There's 700 in just the Bahamas. Then there's the
> Windwards, the Leewards, the Antilles...
Well, if you live in South Florida, you know that those aren't islands at all, but merely wisps of land, for the most part. They are called Cays.
> I don't think those days are coming back. New world
> wars, if there are any, will not be fought by naval
> forces, except for missile cruisers or carrier
> groups, (we don't even have any battleships!), and
> probably they wouldn't be of much tactical use kept
> in that part of the world. Strategically, it's just
> not as important as it was.
There are Russian and Chinese subs still in the Caribbean. Venezuela bought four subs from Russia last year. I'm not paranoid about it, but to say those bad old days aren't coming back is foolish.
> Gitmo remains the only base we have in a nation with
> whom we don't have diplomatic relations, the only
> base we have in a nation whose government doesn't
> want it there.
This is like a someone buy a house that you have already paid rent on that decides they want to throw you out. My first reaction is tough shit.
--
"Eternity is a very long time, especially towards the end."
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(21 of 35)
Re: US relations with Cuba
Feb 28, 2008 1:56 AM
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> Castro in an Adidas outfit???
>
> Did I just here Bill say the Cuba embargo was
> worthless because Castro was wearing an Addidas
> outfit! While I think it is time to lift the
> embargo as we trade with everyone else, Bill Maher
> and you ought to know that Addidas is a German
> company that is not subject to our embargo of Cuba.
> Man get it right......
we'd have to trade in euros.
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