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Barack Obama was elected the 44th president of the United States, as the country chose him as its first African American chief executive.
Share your thoughts on this historic election.
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(24665 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 20, 2009 10:17 AM
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> > Yes, but you can pretend too. 
>
> I'm only comfortable being me.
Does that mean we is friends only if I'm a real liberal?
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Posts:
9,563
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3/25/08
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(24664 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 20, 2009 10:11 AM
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> > > PW,
> > >
> > > Can we be friends for 1 month since I'll
> be
> > wearing
> > > (D) for a month?
> >
> > LOL. But you're just pretending.
>
> Yes, but you can pretend too.
I'm only comfortable being me.
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Posts:
13,046
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2/5/06
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(24663 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 20, 2009 10:08 AM
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> > PW,
> >
> > Can we be friends for 1 month since I'll be
> wearing
> > (D) for a month?
>
> LOL. But you're just pretending.
Yes, but you can pretend too.
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Posts:
13,046
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(24662 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 20, 2009 10:07 AM
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> Right.
>
> In a capitalist system the corporation is expected to
> maximize profit- period. Any person who is not a
> "stakeholder" (on the board of directors and the CEO
> and his personal staff) can be classified into 2
> categories:
>
> 1. Sheep to be sheared (customers). These
> Sheep are to be exploited for maximum profit. Give
> them the least value for their money, and get as much
> money from them as you can. Watch the film
> Glenngarry Glen Ross and you'll get the idea.
> " A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Closing. Always be
> e closing, always be closing."
>
> 2. Enemies (competition, vendors, employees).
> These people either steal Sheep from the
> e Stakeholders or worse yet, have a negative cash
> flow claim against the Stakeholders for either
> services, supplies, or wages. These claims must be
> minimized without mercy.
>
> So, when well meaning people say that "Government
> should be run like a business," they don't know what
> they are asking for. I don't think a Representative
> Democracy should treat me like either a Sheep to be
> Sheared or as an Enemy.
Unplugged the claim of innovation and progress, which can easily be countered with sustainability. Sounds like an interesting conversation.
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Edited by infoseek at 11/20/2009 7:13 AM PST
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Posts:
3,208
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5/8/06
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(24661 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 20, 2009 8:23 AM
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> Right.
>
> In a capitalist system the corporation is expected to
> maximize profit- period. Any person who is not a
> "stakeholder" (on the board of directors and the CEO
> and his personal staff) can be classified into 2
> categories:
>
> 1. Sheep to be sheared (customers). These
> Sheep are to be exploited for maximum profit. Give
> them the least value for their money, and get as much
> money from them as you can. Watch the film
> Glenngarry Glen Ross and you'll get the idea.
> " A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Closing. Always be
> e closing, always be closing."
>
> 2. Enemies (competition, vendors, employees).
> These people either steal Sheep from the
> e Stakeholders or worse yet, have a negative cash
> flow claim against the Stakeholders for either
> services, supplies, or wages. These claims must be
> minimized without mercy.
>
> So, when well meaning people say that "Government
> should be run like a business," they don't know what
> they are asking for. I don't think a Representative
> Democracy should treat me like either a Sheep to be
> Sheared or as an Enemy.
What simplistic nonsense.
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Posts:
2,703
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(24660 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 20, 2009 5:47 AM
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Right.
In a capitalist system the corporation is expected to maximize profit- period. Any person who is not a "stakeholder" (on the board of directors and the CEO and his personal staff) can be classified into 2 categories:
1. Sheep to be sheared (customers). These Sheep are to be exploited for maximum profit. Give them the least value for their money, and get as much money from them as you can. Watch the film Glenngarry Glen Ross and you'll get the idea. " A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Closing. Always be closing, always be closing."
2. Enemies (competition, vendors, employees). These people either steal Sheep from the Stakeholders or worse yet, have a negative cash flow claim against the Stakeholders for either services, supplies, or wages. These claims must be minimized without mercy.
So, when well meaning people say that "Government should be run like a business," they don't know what they are asking for. I don't think a Representative Democracy should treat me like either a Sheep to be Sheared or as an Enemy.
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Posts:
2,978
Registered:
10/22/06
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(24659 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 11:28 PM
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>
> So, have you ever gone to a supermarket? They have a
> bakery department and a deli department. Are they a
> business? No, they are part of the whole store, just
> part of a service they provide.
>
Actually, they are usually run as separate profit centers, which is to say, similar to being their own businesses. Similar to the way Lincoln and Mercury are divisions of Ford, but more like the service dept and fleet sales dept of a dealership.
You want to look at departments that aren't profit centers, try those that just can't generate revenue. Like the human resources department, or the IT department.
> So, a state has PD and FD, they are not businesses,
> they are part of the service provided by the state to
> its citizens. Paid for, through taxes.
>
Yes, that's right. They are not businesses.
> So, just like a store, a state has different
> departments.
>
Right. And a state is not a business, and shouldn't be run like one. Successful business people, therefore, should not run a state. When they try to, they often end up trying to run the state to benefit the business they used to be in, because as businesspeople, they are accustomed to exploiting people for the benefit of the business.
> Clearly, you don't understand english and are unable
> to think for yourself. The talking points must be
> running out.
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Posts:
2,978
Registered:
10/22/06
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(24658 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 11:12 PM
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> Don17000
>
> > >
> > > The post office has always been a
> business,
> > whether
> > > for or not for profit. A business provides
> a
> > > service.
> >
> > Yeah, so does a government. You have said
> yourself
> > in answer to other posts I've made that police
> and
> > fire protection are "services" the state
> provides.
> > So, does that make the state a business, or just
> the
> > e fire and police departments?
> >
> > Looks like you don't know the difference between
> a
> > business and a corporation.
> >
> > A business is an entity, and is owned by its
> > shareholders.
>
> Exactly how is it that I don't know the difference
> between a business and a corporation? A corporation
> is a form of a business.
>
No, it isn't. A corporation is just an artificially created entity. It doesn't have to do any business, doesn't have to own anything, pay anything, or have any money. It just has to be registered in the records of the state wherein it's incorporated. You can form a corporation and never do a thing with it. The corporation still exists.
A business can be a form of corporation, but doesn't have to be.
> A state is a business. We pay taxes and in return
> expect some type of service. The PD or FD are not
> businesses, part of the business of gov't.
>
No, a state is not a business. A state does business.
> The post office is owned by the federal gov't. That
> is who the shareholder is.
>
No, it really isn't. It's independent. Most of ts governors are appointed by the US President, with approval by Senate. The Postmaster General and Deputy are not.
> You live in Florida. So, FSU is state run. Florida
> is a private university. Is one a business and the
> other not? No both are businesses. One operated by
> the state, the other operated privately. Both
> require payment for services. Just like the post
> office.
>
Florida is a private university? And no, they are not businesses. They may be run like a business. A city, county or state government can be run like a business, just the way an adult can act like a child. That doesn't mean it is one.
> Under the exact definition of a business, would the
> gov't be consider a business, probably not. But, in
> the end it is a business and operates in that
> fashion. It may not be run like a business, but
> operates like one.
Depends on what you call "operates like one." If you ignore all the ways in which they are dissimilar, then they appear similar, I grant you that.
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Posts:
2,978
Registered:
10/22/06
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(24657 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 10:29 PM
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> Don17000
>
> Then check again, Sunny. FedEx is a business. UPS
> is a business. DHL is a business. The Post Office is
> a public service corporation. It has no shareholders,
> it doesn't make a profit. Its objective is to pickup
> and deliver the mail. The USPS is obligated to serve
> everyone in the United States, (and by APO-FPO, all
> Americans the US stations abroad,) regardless of
> where they are, at a uniform price and quality.
>
> So, I pay FedEx or UPS to mail a package, I can also
> pay them and have a box, where mail will be
> collected. If someone wishes to send me something,
> they will pay them to send it.
>
> As for the post office, I pay them to mail a package,
> and if someone wishes to send me a package, they will
> pay. If I wish to use a PO Box I will have to pay.
>
> Sounds like they work the same way. I would say they
> commit acts of business.
>
Except that the post office has to deliver to every address in the country (they can't just skip areas, such as rural locations they would lose money on serving), and they don't get to set their own rates. They have to ask Congress for permission if they think they need to charge an extra penny. You think FedEx and UPS have to go through that? If a postal employee knowingly misdirects mail, it's a federal crime. Can't say the same for the others.
You are seeing the difference, I hope, between doing business, and being a business.
> More about the post office, they have a monopoly on
> first and third class mail, meaning any letter sent
> in the US must be mailed by the post office and only
> the post office is allowed to use mail boxes.
>
You act like that's a good thing. And for a business, it is... but the power of a monopoly is in being able to control the price, and raise it as high as management desires. The USPS can't and don't do that. Congress sets the postal rates.
> As for APO-FPO and DPO, they are operated by the
> Defense department. Specifically to military, each
> branch pays for the expenses of mailing. So, no
> added expections are on the post office because of
> that.
No, they are also used by the State Department. (APO addresses include embassies) and the USPS still has to sort that mail at their facilities before handing it off to the military counterpart.
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Posts:
2,978
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Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 10:09 PM
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> Don17000
>
> The cost of healthcare includes insurance. Health
> insurance is the way in which most people pay for
> their healthcare. The rates will rise.
>
No, the cost of health care does not include insurance. If you're wondering why not...
1. When you have insurance, you pay the insurance premium whether you see a doctor or not.
2. The money you spend on the insurance does not go towards healthcare. The money you pay in premiums goes to your insurance company, who use it to pay their overhead, and they invest the balance as they see fit. The money they pay the providers comes more from the investments they make with your premiums.
3. If the insurance denies your claim, you may still have to pay for the services. You will almost certainly still have to cough up your copayment.
> We have a healthcare system that is under employed.
> As we add more people to the field the demand for
> r their services will increase, meaning the costs
> will.
You keep saying this, but you don't back it up with anything. Health care is one of those fields where it just may not apply the way it does in buying other services. In fact, taking the lesser need for cost-shifting into account, the opposite effect is more likely.
Even though this bill does not start till
> 2014, but does collect taxes now, and will not be
> fully implemented until 2019, we will not produce
> enough doctors, nurses, and other healthcare
> professionals to meet the demand.
>
Actually, we will.
> In the healthcare bill there is a 2.5% excise tax on
> all medical equipment.
But, to use your argument, won't the increased demand for said equipment drive the prices down more than that? The markup on DME (and disposable medical equipment also!) is very high, there's a lot of wiggle-room in the price.
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Posts:
9,563
Registered:
3/25/08
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(24655 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 9:53 PM
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> PW,
>
> Can we be friends for 1 month since I'll be wearing
> (D) for a month?
LOL. But you're just pretending.
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Posts:
13,046
Registered:
2/5/06
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(24654 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 9:37 PM
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PW,
Can we be friends for 1 month since I'll be wearing (D) for a month?
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Posts:
9,563
Registered:
3/25/08
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(24653 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 9:30 PM
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> > Here's a funny!
> >
> > Racist nut-job and former CNN talking head, Lou
> > Dobbs, has announced that he may run against
> > President Obama in 2012- and wait for it.... as
> a
> > third party candidate!!!!!!!!!!  Har har
> har!
> > What a fucking genius!
>
> Really? Wow. Dobbs/Palin?
Perfect! The nuts will vote for them, and the Republican candidate will get what's left of whatever moderate Republicans there are and some indies. Obama in a landslide.
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Posts:
13,046
Registered:
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(24652 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 9:27 PM
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> Well, an article was write yesterday about the losses
> the post office is facing and the pending cuts.
>
> It also goes to a larger point, that the gov't is
> unable to effectively run a business, so why exactly
> should they run healthcare?
>
> In case you don't realize, things run by gov't, are
> run based on politics, not reality.
The left can't spin this? *sigh* Fine.
Capitalism is dead. The ability to speculate or profitability from capital market does not apply to government institutions. Duh.
The opposite of no investors to hold accountable is no investors or lenders/borrowers to screw and exploit.
The lack of flexibility to outsource or import foreign nurses as with the case of our allied health care system also don't apply.
The flexibility to scale up and down on profitable territories and niches enjoyed by competitors is once again not applicable to the Post Office.
In fact, if you think about it, US Postal Service is probably the ONLY reason one can justify the bailout, which can only be exploited by the left so far. That's what's wrong with Rush Limbaugh and the neo-MSM. No extremedia please.
Oh, I try to mail or ship through US Postal Services whenever possible.
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Posts:
9,563
Registered:
3/25/08
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(24651 of 24725)
Re: President Barack Obama
Nov 19, 2009 9:25 PM
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> There is nothing to get through. A gov't is a
> business. Profits do not make a business, it is the
> exchange of something of value, for a service or
> product. Through taxes that is what happens.
Hmmm...let's check businessdictionary.com. shall we?
business
Economic system in which goods and services are exchanged for one another or money, on the basis of their perceived worth. Every business requires some form of investment and a sufficient number of customers to whom its output can be sold at profit on a consistent basis.
> Think of McDonald's. There is one main management
> part of the company, then you have franchises
> throughout the country.
>
> Well in the US we have one central authority, and
> then states.
>
> Certain rights are given to each, and certains
> rules/laws must be followed by each.
>
> So, if I take your side, then I guess McDonald's is a
> gov't. Right?
No. It's a business, not a government, which I think is exactly the point.
>
> Is a business a form of gov't or is a gov't a form of
> business?
Neither. Business is business and government is government.
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Edited by prettywitty at 11/19/2009 6:25 PM PST
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