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Who will be the next president?
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Posts:
1,590
Registered:
5/13/06
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(1176 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 24, 2008 9:46 PM
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"We're a country of immigrants, legal, illegal, willing, unwilling. All of us except the Native Americans. So immigration is part of our heritage. "
You're mixing things up. We're first a country of laws. I'm sure you'd call the cops if some guy broke into your house 'illegally', wouldn't you?.
And I don't blame the problem just on illegals, the government is ultimately at fault for allowing this to happen. But the fact remains that illegal anything should be stopped, that's why it's called illegal.
"So, many of us feel conflicted and ambiguous about our moral responsibility to new immigrants legal or illegal. Our ancestors were them at one time."
Your ancestors were illegal?
"It's a sad fact that we don't have resources to welcome everyone who would like to come. Where we draw the lines is difficult to agree on."
Yes it is, but a line needs to be drawn. We can't be the only country that allows illegal inmigration to go unpunished.
--
"Sometimes, based on the votes that get cast, you wonder whether they?re more interested in the rights of the terrorists than in protecting the American people."
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Posts:
35,527
Registered:
12/1/04
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(1175 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 24, 2008 9:36 PM
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I think if we're going to make mistakes about how we treat illegal immigrants those mistakes should be on the side of compassion and respect for every person's human dignity. For most of these people crossing the border illegally is the only crime they've ever committed in their lives. They leave their families and friends and take great risks and are almost always motivated by the same thing, to find jobs to support themselves and their kin.
That's not evil.
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Posts:
35,527
Registered:
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(1174 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 24, 2008 9:32 PM
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henry,
We're a country of immigrants, legal, illegal, willing, unwilling. All of us except the Native Americans. So immigration is part of our heritage.
The message of the Statue of Liberty:
"Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door."
- Emma Lazarus, "The New Colossus," 1883
So, many of us feel conflicted and ambiguous about our moral responsibility to new immigrants legal or illegal. Our ancestors were them at one time. It's a sad fact that we don't have resources to welcome everyone who would like to come. Where we draw the lines is difficult to agree on.
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Posts:
1,590
Registered:
5/13/06
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(1173 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 24, 2008 9:16 PM
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"One of the saddest things to see is a Mexican family turned away from a hospital, because they do not have the proper US identifications to enter the hospital to see their newborn citizen of the US, that's a family member."
You mean because they're illegal. Do you realize that an American citizen can't just go to Mexico to stay illegally? Why should it be any different here in the US. I was born in Ecuador, and they don't allow people from other countries to just come in and stay illegally either. Illegal inmigration should be stopped, because it's "illegal". Other countries don't put up with it, so why should the US?
--
"Sometimes, based on the votes that get cast, you wonder whether they?re more interested in the rights of the terrorists than in protecting the American people."
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Posts:
1,851
Registered:
10/21/07
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(1172 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 24, 2008 6:39 PM
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> One of the saddest things to see is a Mexican family
> turned away from a hospital, because they do not have
> the proper US identifications to enter the hospital
> to see their newborn citizen of the US, that's a
> family member. It's wrong and immoral. I believe,
> like Clinton, regardless if the person is an illegal
> immigrant, they should have an US ID. This ID
> doesn't give you automatic citizenship, or makes your
> stay legal. It just states that you are in the
> United States.
I agree, an ID should be required to show compansion in the Judeo-Christian society.
> Before you all jump on me, my parents was legal
> immigrants. Being born in America, makes me a
> citizen of the USA. My parents are immigrants, and I
> am a first generation American citizen, legally. I
> even qualify to be a President, according to the
> Constitution. What is wrong with that? America is
> built on the backs of immigrant's children, and the
> blood of Native Americans.
Technically built with free slalve labor but, who's counting...
> My mother opted to be a citizen, my father remains a
> resident after 40+ years of being in the US. I don't
> think most immigrants want to be legal citizens, but
> they want the right to be residents and have the same
> rights as a resident. Unfortunately, the lack of
> employment, in their country, caused them to leave
> their country looking for a better position in life.
That was the plan. U.S. corporations drive down 3rd world economies while arresting their economic development by applying political pressure to reduce enviormental and labor protection for natives. When you purposely create lower standards you're artificially manufacturing an economic recession. People south of the border, move north. Profit is maximized across the board and you've now create a nice political issue to scare the shit out of people with.
> Why do some Americans, think that immigrants are
> suddenly a threat to America?
Because Lou Dobbs and Bill O'liely says so.
Immigrants are often
> looking for the position that most Americans refuse
> to do. When was the last time you looked for a
> position as a fruit-picker, nanny or landscaper?
Today. They said I can start tomorrow.
The
> media and the White House are using 'illegal
> immigrants' as a way of distracting Americans, from
> the real issue.
>
You've just won a new car for being correct.
> Corporations are sending our jobs overseas because
> the cost of labor is lower in third world countries,
> than in the US. Sorry to tell you that NAFTA is not
> really the problem.
Pump the breaks. NAFTA IS the REASON why jobs go bye-bye. It's also a nice way to fuck with U.S. labor unions.
The jobs sent to Mexico are low
> wage factory jobs.
Low wage is a relative term. They have become lower now that there's no competition.
Telecommunications allowed
> corporations to have employees, globally. It is the
> corporations that are out-sourcing jobs, while the
> cost of living in America rises.
By design.
Soon Americans,
> will be as poor as the immigrants from other
> countries. That is the real threat to America.
>
I thought Al Quaeda was the real threat and besides, the government will protect us.
--
I e-mailed God and he says "you're lying".
- Russell
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Posts:
35,527
Registered:
12/1/04
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(1171 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 23, 2008 4:35 PM
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thanks ronnie!...lol
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Posts:
35,527
Registered:
12/1/04
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(1170 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 23, 2008 4:34 PM
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Corporations are sending our jobs overseas because the cost of labor is lower in third world countries, than in the US. Sorry to tell you that NAFTA is not really the problem. The jobs sent to Mexico are low wage factory jobs. Telecommunications allowed corporations to have employees, globally. It is the corporations that are out-sourcing jobs, while the cost of living in America rises. Soon Americans, will be as poor as the immigrants from other countries. That is the real threat to America.
CBunny,
Great post.
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Posts:
31,180
Registered:
9/5/01
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(1169 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 21, 2008 12:36 PM
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> what is DTR?
LOL. I asked the same thing. It means Down the Road.
I'm glad it wasn't just me.
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Posts:
35,527
Registered:
12/1/04
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(1168 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 21, 2008 12:33 PM
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what is DTR?
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Posts:
31,180
Registered:
9/5/01
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(1167 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 21, 2008 12:31 PM
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> > > > Would the Dems/Obama want to?
> > > > I don't think McCain would want to
> (unless
> > > someone
> > > > knows differently) but might be
> pressured
> > by
> > > the
> > > > Repubs.
> > >
> > > I don't think our emotional climate is
> prepared
> > for
> > > this yet. If Obama is elected, I think we
> are
> > headed
> > > toward words like, "multi-racial." I see
> this
> > as
> > > DTR.
> > >
> > > To see the change in CA, (gay marriage),
> has
> > been
> > > extraordinary. Finally, the old white
> boys,
> > > rednecks, etc. were challenged, and they
> are
> > > thankfully in the minority.
> > >
> > > 54% in favor 37% against.
> > >
> > > I have gay's in my family, so this was
> personal,
> > and
> > > yet general, (human rights) for me.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Edited by PiaZ at 06/20/2008 3:11 PM PDT
> >
> > DTR? Sorry the heat has gotten to me.
>
> Sorry Ronnie, hot here too. DTR, down the road.
AH-HUH! Thanks.
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Posts:
1,896
Registered:
10/21/07
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(1166 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 21, 2008 12:24 PM
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One of the saddest things to see is a Mexican family turned away from a hospital, because they do not have the proper US identifications to enter the hospital to see their newborn citizen of the US, that's a family member. It's wrong and immoral. I believe, like Clinton, regardless if the person is an illegal immigrant, they should have an US ID. This ID doesn't give you automatic citizenship, or makes your stay legal. It just states that you are in the United States.
Before you all jump on me, my parents was legal immigrants. Being born in America, makes me a citizen of the USA. My parents are immigrants, and I am a first generation American citizen, legally. I even qualify to be a President, according to the Constitution. What is wrong with that? America is built on the backs of immigrant's children, and the blood of Native Americans.
My mother opted to be a citizen, my father remains a resident after 40+ years of being in the US. I don't think most immigrants want to be legal citizens, but they want the right to be residents and have the same rights as a resident. Unfortunately, the lack of employment, in their country, caused them to leave their country looking for a better position in life.
Why do some Americans, think that immigrants are suddenly a threat to America? Immigrants are often looking for the position that most Americans refuse to do. When was the last time you looked for a position as a fruit-picker, nanny or landscaper? The media and the White House are using 'illegal immigrants' as a way of distracting Americans, from the real issue.
Corporations are sending our jobs overseas because the cost of labor is lower in third world countries, than in the US. Sorry to tell you that NAFTA is not really the problem. The jobs sent to Mexico are low wage factory jobs. Telecommunications allowed corporations to have employees, globally. It is the corporations that are out-sourcing jobs, while the cost of living in America rises. Soon Americans, will be as poor as the immigrants from other countries. That is the real threat to America.
--
The monster behind anger, desire(greed and lust), and ignorance is FEAR.
Fear creates division.
Love creates unity.
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Posts:
6,883
Registered:
11/1/01
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(1165 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 20, 2008 10:25 PM
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> This might be going off track but.........
> Because of the over population in this country.
> Someone on one of the news talk shows was blaming it
> on mostly Mexican people who come across the border
> and have several children.
>
> My question is.....
>
> Should this country not allow children to become
> citizens if their parents are not?
Why should they? They get all the advantages of American citizens even though the parents broke the law by coming here illegally? Maybe once the parents become citizens it would be time to make the children citizens as well.
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Posts:
1,026
Registered:
2/10/08
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(1164 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 20, 2008 8:07 PM
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> > > Would the Dems/Obama want to?
> > > I don't think McCain would want to (unless
> > someone
> > > knows differently) but might be pressured
> by
> > the
> > > Repubs.
> >
> > I don't think our emotional climate is prepared
> for
> > this yet. If Obama is elected, I think we are
> headed
> > toward words like, "multi-racial." I see this
> as
> > DTR.
> >
> > To see the change in CA, (gay marriage), has
> been
> > extraordinary. Finally, the old white boys,
> > rednecks, etc. were challenged, and they are
> > thankfully in the minority.
> >
> > 54% in favor 37% against.
> >
> > I have gay's in my family, so this was personal,
> and
> > yet general, (human rights) for me.
> >
> > --
> > Edited by PiaZ at 06/20/2008 3:11 PM PDT
>
> DTR? Sorry the heat has gotten to me.
Sorry Ronnie, hot here too. DTR, down the road.
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Posts:
3,039
Registered:
10/22/06
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(1163 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 20, 2008 7:49 PM
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> You are still not comprehended the entire post. Yes,
> Hawaii was a state two years when Obama was born, but
> the mother not being 18 years of age for the five
> previous years before Obama's birth is one important
> clue, plus the fact that the law in effect at that
> time is another important clue. God, if it were that
> simple people at Stanford University and people at
> Berkeley would not be questioning this. Plus there
> are some other factors if you want to go on. Snopes
> is not the final authority. If it were, we could
> jsut get rid of Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, etc.
> Sigh!
>
There are a lot of people grasping at straws on this to try to disqualify him.
But they miss. There are no straws to grab.
A child born in America, is a natural born American citizen. It doesn't matter how old the mother is, or isn't. And it really doesn't matter if the parents were citizens, either. My wife's brother and older sisters were born in PA, and are natural born American citizens, even though their father was an illegal alien from Italy, a country we were actively fighting a war against at the time. He later became naturalized. The rest didn't have to.
There used to be a little rhyme... "Your father's a Pole, your mother's a Swede, but you were born here, that's all that you need!"
And in fact, this applied even before Hawaii became a state. When it was still a territory, people born there were US citizens. The descendants of the original immigrant laborers were US citizens by virtue of being born in Hawaii, even if their parents weren't.
Sigh.... Obama meets the qualifications. Deal with it.
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Posts:
1,896
Registered:
10/21/07
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(1162 of 5001)
Re: The Race for President
Jun 20, 2008 7:45 PM
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I think my mommy wants me to be a Republican! Is she dropping hints?
My mom just came back from her Caribbean vacation, and all she brought me was elephant charms and pendants. She said, elephants are 'good luck', they take care of their own pack. She wants me to wear them everyday. Is her new religion the GOP?
Deep down I knew her comments on life, was on the conservative side.
"Welfare is for the lazy.
We don't have Social Security in the country I come from.
If you can't take care of yourself and your family then why should anyone else be forced to care of you. In the forest your and your family would just die from hunger.
My family paid for my education. You paid for your son's education, so why do we have to pay taxes for someone else's child?"
I get it, everybody is on their own. Survival of the fittest. The is no "we in me".
But it bothers my conscious. I don't want to believe in the Republican doctrines. I want to believe in that we all want to care for someone else, other than our friends and families.
Now even the Democratic party is giving me the feeling that maybe I am in the wrong party. Their last move of the delegate stripping of Florida, was their coup d 'etat. I feel they are no different than their opponents.
Somebody tell me what is differences between the two main parties? What party is best for me, and why?
--
The monster behind anger, desire(greed and lust), and ignorance is FEAR.
Fear creates division.
Love creates unity.
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