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General religion discussion.
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Posts:
423
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4/14/07
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(1512 of 1512)
Aug 27, 2008 12:43 PM
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I love Re: Religion Aug 26, 2008 11:21 PM post Don
absolutely love it....and agree.
CBunny
tolerating, to me, someone does not mean accepting them.
How often and how long can a person tolerate something? Ex: A lot of men and young men tolerate the preacher on Sunday because the wife or Parent(s) made them go to a religious service. Waiting for this man to shut the hell up so they can get home to the game and some wing dings.
Why tape/TIVO a show when you have left the house? Can't you accept you are not home
Most people tolerate their jobs because had they their choice -they'd a hit the lottery a long time ago and be on a beach somewhere or touring some wonder of the world.
Not attacking CBunny...just an examination of the choice of words to explain your sentiment.
--
Edited by ToriW at 08/28/2008 4:13 AM PDT
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Posts:
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(1511 of 1512)
Aug 26, 2008 11:21 PM
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> If Hypocrisy were a religion, Washington DC would be
> Mecca.
Maybe Hypocrisy is a religion. And each of us has our own Mecca, in our own ego.
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Posts:
716
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(1510 of 1512)
Aug 26, 2008 10:58 PM
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What is the difference between "holy water" and tap water?
Nothing! It's chemically the same.
The difference is a person, who needs to believe that a few mumbled words, from a holy person, gives it power.
It's the same with words like. devil's energy and god's energy. It's really human energy. Sometimes it's in a foul mood, sometimes, it's in a loving mood.
Some are afraid to say that we humans should depend on each other, rather than an unknown and unproven higher source.
If we can get to that point, then the many religions that separate us, will become superstition, and old meaningless tradition.
Unity,under the human spirit. Not spirits of various Gods, worshipped across the world. And the discourse it causes, with our human spirit.
Yes there is a spirit that all humans can relate to.
It's called humanity. We as humans, must learn to respect and tolerate each other.
Yeah, sometimes my spirit is not respectful, because I despites finger shakers. Especially those who use religion as the reason why one group is hellbound, and of course the reason why they are going to heaven.
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Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.
President George Bush, 8/2008
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Posts:
381
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3/13/08
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(1509 of 1512)
Aug 25, 2008 8:39 PM
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2nd Heraclitus below.
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Posts:
23
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5/13/02
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Posts:
423
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(1507 of 1512)
Aug 25, 2008 1:10 PM
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I agree ---very good post Joe and Don and Hera.
I applaud your minds....and bow in respect of your potential actualized. You have a good vantage point.
A thing about the religious zealots.....One thing I am noticing is the pattern of emergence.
For a good portion of the time the posts are respectful and meaningful. Not alot of BS....and then there appears to be a disturbance-an ugly and uneasy essence. Even though there was a disagreement in the past-this feels different. (is it fact or feeling?)
it is an aspect of the yang and yin principle. i have not been replying to attack because - it is pointless #1 and #2 it is the way it works. I am not a trying to martyr myself or anyone here- NOR do I have any notion that anyone SHOULD BECOME ONE.
In waiting I see the equation attempting to balance itself...the positives attracted the negatives. the destructive nature is not as powerful as it thinks it is when in essence it is the love that drives them. Yes the love is twisted - but the connection and e motion is no different than the love that isn't 'twisted'.
Who decides what is twisted and what is not? Did anyone, besides me or you, decide for me or for you?
much like the 'God' energy and Devil energy. In viewing a person's words and seeing the relationship or lack there of with the God of their understanding... I always ask myself was I like this in any area of life?
My ancestors taught me to not speak or write unless I had some thing to say or write. the best way to not argue - is to not argue...not matter what. And I was taught by the elders of my nation to never engage in a fools battle---the victory of them is empty.
As lonely as it can be....there is reason not every one is 'saved' from the hell's of ignorance. And it is up to each individual to free themselves.
It's very nice to read the words of the brave and free...they are like an eclipse to the fire of anger.
Thank you. brave and free, for writing....I think you are awesome and inspiring.
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Edited by ToriW at 08/25/2008 10:14 AM PDT
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Posts:
716
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10/21/07
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(1506 of 1512)
Aug 25, 2008 10:56 AM
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Joe,
I love your post.
Please don't be disappointed if the religious zealots, refuse to accept your views.
Again I say that Heaven and Hell is here on this earth. You do not have to die to be there.
People create heaven and hell, by the way they treat the earth, its flora and fauna, and fellow humans.
--
Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.
President George Bush, 8/2008
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Posts:
129
Registered:
7/9/08
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(1505 of 1512)
Aug 25, 2008 10:20 AM
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Tain, Don, CBunny, Heraclitus - good posts!
Out of my own curiosity, I will endeavor to churn the depths of the absolutely-certain as to how they can know the unknowable.
Jd,
"joe.....God doesnt empower the devil.....people like you do. And if you dont change brother.....hell will be in a future convo for you. I hope not though. The devil is squat to God..."
The Devil has influence. You said so. If God allows or creates influence (supreme to all others), than God allows the Devil that power.
If God and the Devil exist:
The Devil reigns in Hell. That's within God's power to allow or stop.
The Devil sows doubt. That too, is within God's power to allow or stop.
The Devil misleads and connives, and any who accept this guidance, are tortured for an eternity based on 70-100 years of decisions. That's one or more decisions in the blink of God's eye, forever determining how greatly you'll suffer under the whim and joy of Satan. Or something closer to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 centuries compared to 1 century.
That seems a little off-balance.
And doubt is a natural condition. Doubt is not bad. Allowing doubt to fester and project boogie-men and magic totems is one way of dealing with it. Being inquisitive and reasoning-out the sources and foundations for that doubt is another.
If I have doubt, that's my own creation, not due to a demon's wicked influence. To believe in and empower a demon or angel, is to surrender your own mind and free thought to the manipulation of others. And that is surrendering choice, responsibility, and individuality.
When I make mistakes, hold me accountable. The Devil didn't do it.
When I succeed, hold me accountable. God didn't do it.
So, if we're responsible for our own choices, then the promise of heaven or the threat of hell are worthless.
And, if God is truely omnitient or omni-present, than he is a part of all things. Or rather, he is all things. So then, God is the stars and the planets. God is the ocean and the shore. God is a child and God is a grandmother. God is love and God is jealousy. God is joy and God is Hate. God is the Devil.
Or, God isn't everywhere, or everthing, or anything at all.
--
Edited by joefromusa at 08/25/2008 7:20 AM PDT
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Posts:
32
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7/7/07
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(1504 of 1512)
Aug 24, 2008 4:23 PM
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There is no God in religion as practiced by most... there are damned few Christians living life by the tenets of the Carpenter.
If Hypocrisy were a religion, Washington DC would be Mecca.
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Posts:
1,689
Registered:
10/22/06
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(1503 of 1512)
Aug 24, 2008 9:13 AM
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>
>
> Don,
>
> That is the reason why I took both a macroeconomics
> and microeconomics course. One teaches you how to
> think in terms relating to you and your business.
>
> The other taught you to think beyond yourself, and to
> understand how you and your business affects the
> whole world.
>
> I partially agree that we need to think of the world
> as your community, instead of just your neighborhood
> as your community. But often religion is the reason
> for separatism, not unity.
>
> Look at how many posts on this thread are negative.
> People use religion as a reason to feel superior to
> o others, and to separate themselves from the so
> -called heathens and infidels.
>
Unfortunately.
And the authorities of their religion, too often, tend to encourage that view. In the case of many Christians and Muslims, at least, they see their mission as the conversion of the world at large to their religion. I can't tell you how often I've been criticized by the petty-minded who are mired in these games of oneupmanship on other religions. They tell me I'm out of touch with reality. I tell them they're out of touch with God and the Universe, and almost everything beyond their view.
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Posts:
716
Registered:
10/21/07
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(1502 of 1512)
Aug 24, 2008 8:19 AM
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> >
> > There is nothing religion is useful anymore, we
> no
> > longer need it as a source of morality (did a
> lousy
> > job by the way), we don't need it as a source
> of
> > governance (in fact if we ever want to have
> real
> > democracy, we need to at least marginalize it).
> The
> > only thing we still get out of it is hope, the
> > sweetest of poisons, well, false hope would be
> more
> > apt but I don't want to burst anyone's bubble.
> >
> Interesting POV. I think there may be yet one more
> use for religion, though, and that is to direct our
> attention to the bigger picture, to see events in
> cosmic terms as if one had a limitless lifetime.
> Otherwise, we tend to limit ourselves to our own
> n experiences. Even now, there are too many who
> don't think beyond the present, and think that this
> current reality is the zenith of what we can attain.
Don,
That is the reason why I took both a macroeconomics and microeconomics course. One teaches you how to think in terms relating to you and your business.
The other taught you to think beyond yourself, and to understand how you and your business affects the whole world.
I partially agree that we need to think of the world as your community, instead of just your neighborhood as your community. But often religion is the reason for separatism, not unity.
Look at how many posts on this thread are negative. People use religion as a reason to feel superior to others, and to separate themselves from the so -called heathens and infidels.
--
Bullying and intimidation are not acceptable ways to conduct foreign policy in the 21st century.
President George Bush, 8/2008
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Posts:
1,689
Registered:
10/22/06
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(1501 of 1512)
Aug 23, 2008 4:15 PM
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>
> There is nothing religion is useful anymore, we no
> longer need it as a source of morality (did a lousy
> job by the way), we don't need it as a source of
> governance (in fact if we ever want to have real
> democracy, we need to at least marginalize it). The
> only thing we still get out of it is hope, the
> sweetest of poisons, well, false hope would be more
> apt but I don't want to burst anyone's bubble.
>
Interesting POV. I think there may be yet one more use for religion, though, and that is to direct our attention to the bigger picture, to see events in cosmic terms as if one had a limitless lifetime. Otherwise, we tend to limit ourselves to our own experiences. Even now, there are too many who don't think beyond the present, and think that this current reality is the zenith of what we can attain.
Remember, there are other religions beyond the three Abrahamic lines.
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22
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9/8/07
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(1500 of 1512)
Aug 23, 2008 3:29 AM
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It is the XXI century and yet people don't understand that the stories in the Bible (the most revered and popular of books) are not about good and evil but rather about social order, power and control.
God is the righteous monarch and Satan is the rebel that is forever damned for questioning his authority. Angels that are basically his slaves (no free will) are supposed to be the ideal of good and tasting from the tree of knowledge (does that even require an explanation) a source of damnation. And somehow we humans that are superior by having our free will shouldn't exercise it but rather let other people make decisions for us and if we go against their divine laws we get a stoning. It goes on and on...
Read it yourself, if you understand it, good for you, if you don't, you're in the majority and there is no hope for man kind.
There is nothing religion is useful anymore, we no longer need it as a source of morality (did a lousy job by the way), we don't need it as a source of governance (in fact if we ever want to have real democracy, we need to at least marginalize it). The only thing we still get out of it is hope, the sweetest of poisons, well, false hope would be more apt but I don't want to burst anyone's bubble.
Humanity is not all it's cranked up to be. Yes, our science and technology appears magnificent at first glance, but a few nerds are not gonna save the world. Socially, we are barely out of the jungle, and although this alone is not going to solve our problems, we need to get rid of religion completely to make any progress. It's been fun but it's getting old.
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Posts:
1,625
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(1499 of 1512)
Aug 22, 2008 4:52 PM
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joe.....God doesnt empower the devil.....people like you do. And if you dont change brother.....hell will be in a future convo for you. I hope not though.
The devil is squat to God........
--
Yeah Buddy! Light Weight!...ain't nothing but a peanut"....Ronnie Coleman aka Mr. Olympia
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Posts:
129
Registered:
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(1498 of 1512)
Aug 22, 2008 1:55 PM
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Jd,
Since Hell is no longer open for discussion, can you please explain: the Devil.
If God can empower or diminish all good or evil, why empower the Devil? What purpose would an omniscient God serve by establishing a rivalry?
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