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The Texas Supreme ruled that CPS overstepped their bounds and the children must be returned to their LDS parents. Do you agree that CPS was out of line, or do you feel that the children were truly in danger and more investigation was warranted?
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 24, 2008 3:58 AM
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No, I'm pretty sure I have it right. The political cartoon went that the terrorists love that he wants to pull out, but a wittier pundit pointed out that it might be because he wanted to shower money on the region.
It is my own opinion that they actually hope for a president more open to trying something besides terrorizing anyone in a position to know terrorists. The interviews I read in the paper suggest they favor him in hopes he will demonstrate anti-Zionist leanings.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 24, 2008 3:44 AM
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jes,
I think instead of saying Muslim terrorists love Barack....more accurate would be to say Muslim Americans as a minority in our country tend to support him...and Muslims world wide support him, peaceful by far the vast majority of Muslim people are, because they don't think he's racist or prejudiced against them.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 24, 2008 3:25 AM
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I was referring to bigamy laws. There's a huge gap between Annette Jeffs' getting down and dirty with her husband in front of her 15-year-old daughter days before she convinced said daughter to do as her father tells her and marry his lieutenant's son and a financially strapped co wife who encourages her 17-year-old daughter to marry so her husband can pay for her college.
To the Texas DA, there's no distinction, either is an inroad to their old enemy and to hell with the families that get broken up in the process. It figures the poor people would get squashed in a vendetta between rich people and politicians. Of course, they conditionally gave most of the kids back and inspired a lot of FLDS to actually vote, so no harm done, right?
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Edited by jestellef at 07/24/2008 12:26 AM PDT
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 24, 2008 12:21 AM
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"As it stands, some people are afraid to testify about abuse for fear of being jailed on unrelated charges. How do you claim spousal abuse if claiming you have a spouse will get ten people arrested?"
Who was arrested? Jeffs, on criminal charges. And then 5 others, on criminal charges. Are you defending sexual assault of minors, bigamy, and failure to report sex abuse as "unrelated charges"?
You're defending a mother who stood by when her children were abused, but was only willing to come forward bcz she is now the object of abuse? She is an unfit parent. Unfit parent is not a criminal charge and will not lead to arrest. Same with the other ten. No one can be arrested and held without charge. Except at Guantanamo and global rendition prisons, of course.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 23, 2008 4:28 PM
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Here's a thought. Muslim fundamentalists love Obama. Not because he sympathizes with terrorism, but because he doesn't see them as terrorists, or ignorants, or wife-beaters, but people who have had their land, families, and cultural identity taken from them by tyrannical governments that criminalized their existence and pushed them into a corner.
They want him for American president because he is willing to open up a dialog with even the most intractable and violent people to create a better landscape for their "followers."
I realize that Obama's position (if he has one) on the fundamentalists at YFZ is completely entangled in issues pertaining to his election, but I wonder - as a unifier, would he support legalizing the existence of polygamy in order to bring polygamist women in need of help out of hiding without forcing them to betray their "cult"ure?
As it stands, some people are afraid to testify about abuse for fear of being jailed on unrelated charges. How do you claim spousal abuse if claiming you have a spouse will get ten people arrested?
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 23, 2008 1:19 AM
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Fa' sho'.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 23, 2008 12:29 AM
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jes...ya here?
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 23, 2008 12:26 AM
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According to the diary, Jeffs married himself to an eleven year old girl the same night he compelled his daughter to marry Raymond Jessop, and there are passages suggestive that this was not the first instance of sexual abuse against his daughter.
None of which has anything to do with the removal of every child in the compound. Even if they could force Teresa Jeffs to admit she didn't wait until she was 17 to have sex with her arranged husband.
Don't get me wrong, there's no such thing as the last nail in Jeffs' coffin, and Merrill has had it coming for a long time, but none of the other girls claimed they felt their attorneys were their enemies, not even the thirty-seven-year-old that was "mistaken" for a 17-year old to pad the teenage girl count.
We are back to persecuting an entire city for the crimes of its prophet, and while I hope Malonis gets to the bottom of Willie Jessop's role in the union of Merrill Jessop's son and William Jeffs' daughter, it looks like, rather than abuse being widespread, the same people get prosecuted over and over.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 11:46 PM
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I didn't ask where are you, I asked who are you.
I don't even pretend to know where you're coming from, and frankly, I don't care. As I said early on, there's no defending the indefensible unless you're in on it.
Jeffs the rapist, and five of his followers have been indicted on various charges, sexually assaulting girls under 17, bigamy, failure to report child abuse. This sordid business gives me a major case of the creeps.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25802446/?GT1=43001
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Edited by Gzndhyt at 07/22/2008 8:48 PM PDT
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 8:50 PM
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I'm not comfortable telling you my precise location in this debate. I'd prefer it if my opinions spoke for themselves, since credibility is a non-issue on the internet.
(Speaking of which, I didn't clarify earlier - principle and boy scout leader, two separate pedos.)
It is one of the things I like about the net. I mean, not the anonymity, per se, but the low-pressure interaction. No one can shout you down or force you to speak on a message board. Or punch you in the nose, come to that!
It pales in comparison to genuine personal contact, complete with facial expressions, body language, touching, and actually being able to physically be there for a friend who needs help, but it definitely has advantages.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 6:02 PM
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I have been in your shoes, Rainy, like so many of our compatriots. There are book clubs and writers groups that would love to have a bright person like you. Not to be intrusive, just a suggestion. It would be so much better for community to be there for people to have a choice whether to participate or not.
> They gave
> themselves the right to take away our kids if
> we don't raise them according to utopic philosophies.)
"Our kids?" Who are you, Jest?
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 3:58 PM
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Winning the war on drugs? *Pause for belly laugh* are you proposing the government make everyone in the country so happy that they don't want drugs? Not even Obama would promise that!
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 3:57 PM
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Hah. A nation of happy, fulfilled, employed people can not be created, it has to be born. To parents who live in that society.
And I highly doubt that the government already knows the solutions to all of life's problems - they can't even agree on how to solve the ones that can be solved with money! (And face it, money and the power to throw us in jail if we don't do what they say are the only real powers we've given them. They gave themselves the right to take away our kids if we don't raise them according to utopic philosophies.)
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 12:07 PM
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Oh, and this:
Every single thing our govt does should be aimed at....creating a nation of happy, healthy, educated, fullfillingly employed citizens. That's what the Scandinavians have accomplished.
is THE ANSWER for winning the war on drugs.
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Re: Texas Supreme Court Rules Children Must Return to Parents
Jul 22, 2008 12:05 PM
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> > Yes, state intervention is the solution to all
> > mankind's problems.
> >
> > Now that the Brits have cameras on every street
> > corner and mail box, crime has vanished. Same
> with
> > guns you know, with no guns there is no crime.
>
> No, JET, you're right.
>
> No state intervention will ever replace community.
>
> We know exactly what the problem are and how to solve
> them, we just don't do it. There's no money to be
> made off of happy people living in supportive
> communities.
>
> But SMART interventions are, like single-payer
> healthcare, Social Security, unemployment
> compensation, welfare w/job training and employment
> assistance, minimum wage standards, veterans'
> benefits, public schools, etc.
Gzndhyt,
Bingo! I love the way you think, hon. That's what I think every single thing our govt does should be aimed at....creating a nation of happy, healthy, educated, fullfillingly employed citizens. That's what the Scandinavians have accomplished.
Results - happiness, almost no misery index, very low crime rate, high standard of living, economic viability, thriving companies, highly skilled and educated workforce. We don't do that and pay the consequences tragically.
All of the Tender Loving Care that should be a circle...our happy lives producing abundant taxes funding programs that help us collectively in return...instead goes to a thousand breaks and benefits and forms of corporate welfare...which they receive ungratefully, exploit their employees, cheat their customers, pollute our environment...and laugh all the way to the bank.
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