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I have noticed recently that discussions of the swine flu vaccine have often featured Bill Maher's position prominently. Considering the current state of the H1N1 flu in this country, how do you feel about the vaccine now? http://www.webmd.com/cold-and-flu/features/is-the-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-safe BTW, I'm too old and can't get the vaccine, even if I want it. -- Edited by Host_Jane at 11/02/2009 8:53 AM PST
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(21 of 21)
Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 10, 2009 10:15 PM
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RujoK,
You're really a GOP troll aren't you? What in the fuck does Kerry, Bush, or 2004 have to do with ANY of this?
DaN
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 10, 2009 9:38 PM
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> I don't know what news you read or listen to, but
> I've heard a ton of outrage and concern about the
> handling of the vaccine situation. The drug companies
> are making a fortune off of the swine flu, the
> government only buys it, however the criticisms are
> there and deserved.
>
> Anyone with, or has a family member with, compromised
> lung function should be concerned.
Your post helps make my point. In your mind it's all the fault of the evil drug companies and all their profits (newsflash, Jane-the drug companies are not nonprofit institutions, nor should they be expected to be. Besides, how can they be making money from vaccines that aren't being distributed? Oh that's right, the Democrat-controlled government paid for them but can't get their heads out of their asses to distribute them ina timely, efficient manner). Back in 2004 John "I voted for the war before I voted against it" Kerry made a campaign issue out of Bush's handling of the seasonal flu vaccine shortage. Now that the shoe's on the other foot it's suddenly the fault of the drug companies?? You can't have it both ways.
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 9, 2009 11:23 AM
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> > Why be outraged?
> >
> > It's legitimate criticism.
>
> Then why is there no criticism of Obama Christ
> Superstar for the current mishandling (one might say
> cluster-fucking) of the swine flu vaccine? That was
> my point, not whether blaming an administration for
> such bungling is legitimate, only why it was leveled
> at Bush and not Obama.
I don't know what news you read or listen to, but I've heard a ton of outrage and concern about the handling of the vaccine situation. The drug companies are making a fortune off of the swine flu, the government only buys it, however the criticisms are there and deserved.
Anyone with, or has a family member with, compromised lung function should be concerned.
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 8, 2009 1:00 AM
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There was a scramble. 4/5 was made on schedule. The schedule keeps ramping up.
The main problem is the fucking drug company trusts, but do you really want to see Obama messing with that? Because it would tickle the lefties pink.
Besides, most MSM seems too busy screaming about how dangerous the vaccines might be, but I have seen an occassional story along your lines.
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 8, 2009 12:46 AM
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> Why be outraged?
>
> It's legitimate criticism.
Then why is there no criticism of Obama Christ Superstar for the current mishandling (one might say cluster-fucking) of the swine flu vaccine? That was my point, not whether blaming an administration for such bungling is legitimate, only why it was leveled at Bush and not Obama.
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 8, 2009 12:38 AM
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Why be outraged?
It's legitimate criticism.
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 8, 2009 12:32 AM
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I think it's fucking amazing (although not at all surprising) that there's been not a peep of criticism against the Obama administration regarding the lack of access to swine flu vaccine, yet 5 years ago a vaccine shortage was laid firmly at the feet of the Bush Administration.
I have two jobs, both for health care organizations that are unable to get swine flu vaccines for their employees, even though there are estimated to be something in the neighborhood of 90 million doses ready to go. The only thing keeping it out of the hands of those who need it is government mishandling of the supply. We can't get the vaccine until the feceral government makes it available to us. Meanwhile, prisoners and Gitmo terrorists are getting immunized.
I'm waiting for the outrage from you people...
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 7, 2009 2:00 PM
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Couldn't find anything posted here about this story. (nearly 4million views) But my bullshit detector hasn't seen a code-red alert like this since Balloon Boy. Not only do I call total bullshit, that this is a valid reason not to get vaccinated, (yes I do believe there are legitimate reasons not to get vaccinated), but I strongly hope risk groups would not skip the vaccine) I am calling Desiree a complete fraudster and totally in on the hoax. Or at least a strong psychogenic component and is unlikely to be due to the vaccine, in case I turn out to be a heartless cynic.
Here is the view from a skeptic at scienceblog that provides a little light. And poooor Desiree has a website so you can follow the "recovery". I'm not going to bother with the pro-desiree case. You can just google "Desiree Jennings" to find all kinds of cases pointing to this as the reason not to get vaccinated from and the vaccine-truthers.
As Penn and Teller would say - BULLSHIT!
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Edited by monkeypaw at 11/07/2009 11:02 AM PST
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 4, 2009 11:59 AM
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Natural Immunity
(NaturalNews) Despite all the panic and hype about the H1N1 pandemic and the rush to immunize people in droves against the virus, the fact is -- so far -- the outbreak has been fairly mild. Now University of California (UC) Davis, researchers studying H1N1, formerly referred to as "swine flu," have identified a group of immunologically important sites called epitopes in the virus that are also present in seasonal flu viruses, which have been circulating for untold years. So what does this mean? If you were exposed to the earlier influenza viruses, you probably already have some level of immunity to H1N1.
The new study would explain why so many people over the age of 60 -- whose bodies were likely exposed to similar flu viruses over the decades -- have been found to carry antibodies or other kinds of immunity against H1N1. In fact, the CDC now admits pre-existing antibodies against the virus are found in about one third of H1N1 2009 patients over the age of 60, a fact that shows some natural immunity to the new H1N1 virus exists in many people.
"These findings indicate that human populations may have some level of existing immunity to the pandemic H1N1 influenza and may explain why the 2009 H1N1-related symptoms have been generally mild," researcher Carol Cardona, a veterinarian and Cooperative Extension specialist at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, said in a media statement.
Cardona and UC scientist Zheng Xing recently posted their findings online in the journal of Emerging Infectious Diseases. The study is also slated for publication in the November print edition of the journal, which is published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). "Our hypothesis, based on the application of data collected by other researchers, suggests that cell-mediated immunity, as opposed to antibody-mediated immunity, may play a key role in lowering the disease-causing ability, or pathogenicity, of the 2009 H1N1 influenza," Xing said in the media release.
Curiously, the new research suggests that although previous similar flu viruses seem to have produced antibodies in exposed people, these antibodies are not what are providing protection for those infected with the H1N1 2009 strain of influenza. Instead, Cardona and Xing theorize that instead of stimulating protective antibodies, the epitopes of the new H1N1 virus produce an immune response in a different way. The virus triggers production of cytotoxic T-cells that kill infected cells, attack the invading virus, and rev up the immune system.
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Personally, I would probably choose the holistic and natural approach because H1N1 had been relatively mild, but I've kids and close to someone who is pregnant.
IMO, the Obama Administration had been responsible and responsive to protect ALL Americans, given the scale of this vaccination campaign complicated by shortages and priorities of distribution.
Have you been to one of these sites? Table(s) of physicians, nurses, and other staffs are readily available to deal with complications and facilitate their maximal projected capacity in the safest and most efficient way possible, and that's not cheap.
infoseek (N)ormal
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 3, 2009 9:57 PM
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Timeline: The secret history of swine flu
* 15:26 29 October 2009 by Debora MacKenzie and Michael Marshall
Six months ago, swine flu emerged as a massive threat to global health. It seemed to come out of nowhere, but our timeline explains how the origins of the H1N1 pandemic go back more than a century
1889
Prior to 1889, the main flu virus circulating in humans has been from the H1 family. But this year, a new strain of H2 flu emerges in Russia and spreads around the world, killing about 1 million people. Afterwards, H2 replaces H1 in humans. Such replacements seem to be a regular feature of flu pandemics.
People born before 1889, who have been exposed to H1 flu, have some immunity to it. This affords them some protection in the deadly H1N1 epidemic of 1918. Those born after 1889 do not have any immunity to H1.
1918
The "Spanish flu" epidemic of 1918 kills at least 50 million people worldwide. It is caused by an H1N1 virus which evolves directly from a bird flu into a human flu.
After a mild wave of infections in the summer, the epidemic goes global: one-third of the population eventually get sick. Although most cases are mild, many sufferers develop a rapidly fatal infection deep in their lungs. People born before 1889 are less susceptible, thanks to their previous exposure to H1N1.
Most deaths are caused by bacterial lung infections that move in after the virus. Modern antibiotics might mean that a re-run of the 1918 pandemic would be less dangerous.
After 1919, the descendants of the H1N1 virus continue to circulate and cause seasonal flu outbreaks in humans ? and pigs.
1931
Swine flu is first isolated from a pig in Iowa.
1933
The first human flu virus is isolated at Mill Hill in London. When given to ferrets, it produces a disease whose symptoms are all but identical to the Iowan pig virus. But ferrets that have had the human virus are not fully immune to the pig virus, showing that the two viruses have already started to evolve apart.
1957
An H2N2 virus causes the "Asian" flu pandemic, completely displacing the H1N1 viruses that have been circulating in humans since 1918. The pandemic is fairly mild, killing 1 to 1.5 million people worldwide.
The virus is produced by a reassortment, in which human-adapted H1N1 swaps genes with an H2N2 bird flu. The new H and N surface proteins mean most people do not have antibodies to the virus, allowing it to go pandemic. However, its human-adapted genes mean it is not as lethal to humans as the 1918 virus, which came, with few changes, from birds.
People tend to mount the best immune response to the first kind of flu virus they experience. Because of this, people born before 1957, whose first experience of flu would have been the H1N1 viruses then in circulation, have some immunity to the 2009 H1N1 strain causing the current pandemic. People born after the 1957 pandemic do not have this immunity.
1968
An H3N2 virus causes the "Hong Kong" flu pandemic, which is even milder than the Asian flu, killing an estimated 0.75 million to 1 million people worldwide.
The virus only differs from H2N2 in one of its surface proteins, the H; since many people still have antibodies to the unchanged N2 protein, its effects are less severe. But because H3N2 completely replaces H2N2 in people, no one born since 1968 has any immunity to H2.
1972
Researchers Graham Laver and Robert Webster discover that waterfowl are the natural hosts of influenza viruses. The birds harbour strains unknown in humans that could reassort with human strains and give rise to new human pandemics.
1976
An H1N1 virus jumps from pigs to humans and kills a US army recruit. However the virus does not spread beyond the army base and fizzles out without triggering a pandemic.
Nevertheless, fears of a replay of the 1918 pandemic lead to 48 million people being hastily vaccinated against the swine flu virus. The vaccine is associated with an unusual number of cases of Guillain-Barré syndrome: 532 people get it, and 25 die.
1977
An H1N1 virus appears in north-east China and starts circulating in humans. It causes seasonal flu in every subsequent year. No one knows where it came from, though it looks like an H1N1 that circulated in the Soviet Union in 1950 and some suspect it escaped in a laboratory accident.
The virus causes a mild flu pandemic, which mainly affects people born after H1N1 flu disappeared in 1957. However, the real surprise is that it does not displace the previous, and more virulent, seasonal flu, H3N2. Instead, it continues circulating alongside it.
The antibodies people produce after being infected by this new seasonal H1N1 do not protect against 2009 H1N1. However, infections also trigger another reaction called cell-mediated immunity, in which certain white blood cells target and destroy infected cells. Tests of the 2009 H1N1 pandemic vaccine show that, unlike antibodies, cell-mediated immunity to seasonal H1N1 may help protect against the pandemic virus. This does not prevent disease altogether, but can reduce its severity
1998
The predecessor of the 2009 H1N1 swine flu virus emerges in the USMovie Camera. It is a hybrid of human, bird and swine flu viruses, and by 1999 it is the dominant flu strain in US pigs.
US pig farms try to control it with vaccines, but these attempts are largely ineffective because the virus evolves too rapidly, changing the surface proteins targeted by the vaccine while keeping its internal genes unchanged. The 2009 pandemic virus is a variant on this 1998 flu, and behaves the same way.
2004-2006
H5N1 flu, first identified as a threat to humans in Hong Kong in 1997, spreads from Asia around the world, apparently carried by wild birds. While this "bird flu" proves deadly to humans, killing more than half of its victims, it is kept in check by its inability to spread readily from human to human. H5N1 is also found in pigs in Indonesia, raising fears that it might reassort with other human flu viruses that pigs can harbour.
The threat posed by bird flu leads to the first real efforts to be made at pandemic planning: governments start to stockpile antiviral drugs, and the world's drug companies start doing serious research on pandemic vaccines. These plans are made with the highly lethal H5N1 in mind, meaning that they are not always appropriate for the 2009 pandemic.
2007-2008
Pandemic fears boost spending on flu research. European scientists start organising to track flu in wild birds, Vietnamese scientists find that antibodies from bird flu victims can cure other cases of the virus (a technique used in Hong Kong in 2009), the risk of dying of flu is found to be partly genetic, and it turns out that your mother was right to warn you about catching the flu when it's cold out.
However, Indonesia, where most H5N1 outbreaks are happening, refuses to share samples of the virus, arguing that it will not benefit in return from any vaccines developed as a result. This means scientists cannot monitor the virus's evolution.
But worries about H5N1 subside as it fails to become contagious in people ? although virologists continue to warn that it is not the only threatening flu virus out there. Viruses from the H9, H7 and H2 families all give cause for concern.
March 2009
The first cases of a new type of swine flu are reported in California and Texas in late March. Subsequent genetic analysis suggests that it may have started circulating in humans in January.
April 2009
On 27 April, with 900 cases of suspected swine flu reported in Mexico, the World Health Organization (WHO) upgrades the pandemic warning level from 3 to 4 on a six-point scale. Intensive efforts to understand the virus and develop a vaccine begin immediately.
The US government advises against travel to Mexico, although research suggests that travel bans will not stop the virus spreading.
May 2009
Although swine flu seems to be spreading slowly, it is still progressing quickly enough to justify preparing for a pandemic. However, the WHO delays declaring a pandemic, partly because there is not enough evidence that the virus is spreading in the general population outside the Americas, where it originated.
New Scientist reveals that Europe is not testing people with flu symptoms unless they have recently travelled to an affected area in the Americas, or have had close contact with someone who did. As a result, Europe cannot detect spread in the general population. These restrictions may be making the pandemic "invisible" to the monitoring authorities.
As concerns mount, it transpires that many countries are poorly prepared for this scenario and that supplies of H1N1 vaccine cannot be prepared in time to catch the second wave.
June 2009
The UK and other countries change their rules and start testing people who have flu but no North American contacts. Cases of swine flu are soon detected.
On 11 June the WHO officially declares swine flu to be a pandemic. This is the signal for the vaccine industry to start making pandemic vaccine (paid for by governments), rather than conventional flu vaccine (paid for by ordinary health services).
July 2009
Treatment plans are shaken by the discovery of swine flu that is resistant to the antiviral drug Tamiflu and the realisation that the H1N1 vaccine is growing only half as fast as the ordinary flu vaccine.
The US decides to use its standard formulation for flu vaccine, so no new regulatory tests will be needed. This will allow it to authorise pandemic vaccine before September, when a renewed wave of the pandemic is expected. But this formulation uses a lot of virus, and so reduces the number of doses that can be made.
Researchers discover that the swine flu virus binds far deeper in the lungs than ordinary flu, possibly explaining why it is sometimes fatal. However, the majority of cases are still mild, and it appears that many of the people with severe cases have an underlying health problem ? although some of these "problems" are no more remarkable than being overweight, pregnant or unborn.
In the southern hemisphere, where it is winter, swine flu apparently replaces the usual seasonal flu. This suggests that the pandemic virus will displace the two previous seasonal flu strains, as previous pandemics have done. However, after the experience of 1977, when this did not happen, scientists do not rule out the return of H3N2 after the autumn wave of swine flu.
August 2009
A New Scientist poll reveals widespread concern about swine flu among public health officials and epidemiologists, many of whom have obtained supplies of antiviral drugs for their own families.
September 2009
Four major vaccine manufacturers report that their swine flu vaccines work with only one shot. This is good news, given that vaccine is in short supply despite researchers' success in finding faster-growing strains. The vaccine's effectiveness suggests there must be pre-existing cell-mediated immunity, possibly because of similarities between the surface proteins on swine flu and the seasonal H1N1 flu that emerged in 1977.
As autumn arrives in the northern hemisphere, experts are on tenterhooks: a particular worry is that swine flu will hybridise with bird flu to create a readily contagious human flu armed with a lethal H5 surface protein. At time of writing, the virus had not become more severe, causing mild disease in most sufferers but making a small number ? probably less than 1 per cent ? extremely ill.
October 2009
Vaccination programmes begin in the US and Europe, but many healthcare workers are reluctant to have the vaccine, even though it is virtually identical to the seasonal vaccines used in previous years, which have a good safety record.
Production delays also continue to plague the deployment of vaccine. By 22 October, the US has only 27 million doses available, compared with the expected 45 million. Researchers show that this much vaccine will reduce the number of cases in the second wave by less than 6 per cent ? but that is still enough to save 2000 lives.
Six months after swine flu first shot to world attention, US President Barack Obama declares the virus a national emergency.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn18063-timeline-the-secret-history-of-swine-flu.html?full=true
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 2, 2009 10:49 PM
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Wouldn't a strong immune system be more susceptible to a virus known to kill by causing the immune system to overreact? Immune system kills foreign viruses and other things. That's what it is for. I'm just wondering...
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I wonder what'll happen if the swine flu mutated due to vaccine shortages, and we have to go through the same shit all over again?
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I will make sure I'll be dragging my entire family include 5 and 1.5 yo crying sons to wait in line at liberal West LA delivery site and remind them we're all going through this again because of an incompetent President.
I'll be waiting for any liberal to tell me I should be grateful, because I'll be handing them the whole load of how O fails everything with more wastes of public resources.
Ain't exactly some balloon stunt, but I think I'll get the satisfaction of annoy the shit out of liberals and Obamacons.
Don't let this happen.
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Actually, let this happen on comedy or something.
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Edited by infoseek at 11/02/2009 7:56 PM PST
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 2, 2009 6:35 PM
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Olgushka--please attach links to posts like that, especially ones that recommend supplements as an alternative to a potentially fatal virus.
Unlike Maher, I believe that any of us are susceptible to viruses and bugs bcz new strains appear all the time, we're unavoidably exposed to hordes of humanity, and we don't always know when our immune systems might be compromised.
I can't remember the last time I had a flu. I've never been hospitalized, don't take meds, eat healthy foods, & take some supplements. I do my own research about viruses and bugs bcz I take responsibility for my health, and also bcz I work with kids. All kids are walking germ factories, that's how they build up their immune system, like most of us did when we were kids.
But if my doc, who's well-versed in supplements & nutrition and the risks of vaccines, if she assessed my situation and urged me to get a swine flu shot, I'd definitely go along with her suggestion.
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Re: What's New With the Swine Flu
Nov 2, 2009 5:12 PM
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This was forwarded to me:
Dr. Blaylock is a >>board certified neurosurgeon, author and lecturer. He attended the LSU School of Medicine in New Orleans and completed his general surgical internship and neurosurgical residency at the Medical University of South Carolina in Charleston, SC.
No one should take this vaccine (Swine Flu vaccine)-it is one of the most dangerous vaccines ever devised. It contains an immune adjuvant called squalene (MF-59) which has been shown to cause severe autoimmune disorders such as MS, rheumatoid arthritis and Lupus. The newsletter for August covers this and it may not be out yet. This is the vaccine adjuvant that is strongly linked to the Gulf War syndrome, which killed over 10,000 soldiers and caused a 200% increase in the fatal disease ALS (Lou Gehreg disease). This virus H1N1 kills by causing a "cytokine storm", which means that it causes the body's immune system to overreact and that is why it is killing young people and is a mild disease in the elderly. (The elderly have weakened immune systems.) This vaccine is a very powerful immune stimulator and carries the real possibility of making the lethality of the virus much greater. One's best protection is vitamin D3.. One should take 5000 IU a day now and when the disease begins to spread increase the dose to 15,000 IU a day. Vitamin D3 modulates the immune reaction, reducing the chance of an overreaction and stimulates the body to produce what are called antimicrobial peptides, which are powerful killers of viruses that does not involve immunity. This is dose related, which means the higher the dose of vitamin D3 the better the protection. Fish oils (the best is Carlson's Norwegian lemon flavored fish oil) also reduce immune overreaction. One teaspoon a day should be sufficient. For severe symptoms, one teaspoon twice a day. Antioxidants of various kinds also help-this includes, quercetin, curcumin, grape seed extract, vitamin C and natural vitamin E. A good ultivitamin/mineral such as Extend Core (www.vrp.com ) is also essential.
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