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Hello everyone,
I am a 26 year old Dutch guy and I like to watch the "real time" show. I agree with a lot of things that Bill Maher states in his shows but I have one BIG problem.
Bill calls the democrats the "left" party and the republicans the "right" party in the V.S. The thing is, the democrats aren't left at all. If you compare the two parties from the V.S. to the Dutch parties, then the democrats are the right party and the republicans are extreme right.
There are no green and social parties in the V.S. For example, one of the political parties in Holland is called "greenleft" and that is a left party with left ideas. The democrats does not have a lot left ideas.
What do you think? Are the democrats really "left"?
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Posts:
3,145
Registered:
11/5/02
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(48 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 9:44 PM
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> > > > > I wouldn't complain about
> spelling
> > errors
> > > if I
> > > > > couldn't comprise a simple
> paragraph
> > using
> > > > proper
> > > > > tense and grammar. An old adage
> about
> > pots
> > > and
> > > > > kettles comes to mind, lol.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Edited by magialuna at 08/31/2009
> 2:20
> > PM
> > > PDT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please check out this post, 17, with
> regard
> > to
> > > the
> > > > new rules.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you.
> > > >
> > > > C.
> > >
> > > What new rules?
> >
> >
> > Ditto, 17.
> >
> > Thanks so much,
> >
> > C.
>
> We are not supposed to post in certain threads, it
> doesn't mean we can never respond to posts in other
> threads. Stop trying to pick and chose who gets to
> post on this forum.
Who are "we"? I am not aware of new rules concerning posting in certain threads (?).
17?
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Posts:
759
Registered:
9/1/08
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(47 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 3:26 PM
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> imo there should be a pure seperation of church and
> state when it coms to marriages and civil unions.
>
> A civil union and all rights pertaining should be
> granted to any 2 consenting adults.
>
> Proclaiming a union of two adults a 'marriage'
> should be at the discretion of the individual church.
Agreed. Marriage is such a deeply personal thing that it doesn't make sense that the law should be able to deny it to any two consenting adults.
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Posts:
1,901
Registered:
6/23/08
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(46 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 2:08 PM
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Info,
It's a sad story. Really. It's also quite surprising given what should have been a slam dunk in California. The fact that such a large majority of the democratic voters voted for Prop 8 tells me it's not such a partisan issue. Discrimination transcends both parties.
Most republicans I know are very much in favor of granting equality. Of course they aren't the Christian house of Power folks, so they may be a rarity, but by the same token, I know a whole bunch of democrats in my state that happily supported the ban on marriage which my state suffers under.
It's a serious failure of leadership. Unfortunately this president seems to agree. It won't change until Obama changes his position on marriage, or at least the application of equality regardless of sexual status in this country. Most folks I know feel hugely betrayed by Obama on this and other issues.
Whatever happened to open service in the military, for example. I remember folks here trotting out promise after promise about getting rid of dont ask don't tell, but, it remains the law of the land, and there isn't ANY indication that it's about to be removed.
Democrats have big exposure and culpability on having maintained this as the status quo. For all the ranting about how they "support us" it clearly is more for the money and the parties than to actually extend us rights.
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Posts:
13,126
Registered:
2/5/06
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(45 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 1:01 PM
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> I completely accept the idea that gay and straight
> t couples should enjoy the same legal rights in terms
> of a civil union.
>
> If a church wants to grant a symbolic marriage to a
> couple that should be at their discretion.
One the state recognizes? No. It should be at people's discretion, and if the people can't extend that equality, then the court should intervene.
> btw..I'm a hetro male, I happen to live in Hillcrest
> (close to my work) a predominantly gay neighborhood
> in SD. I've lived here for over a year and these gay
> folks are the best neighbors I've ever had.
IMO, people's sexual preference really don't set them apart as a cohort. I still tell a few homosexual jokes sometimes but it's rare; most of them hover on superficial gender behavior differences.
My sister and her wife are trying to have kid and were looking for a house next to me, so we can streamline child care and other resources.
Guess what, my town voted for Prop 8, so they purchased a home in a neighbor town that vote against Prop 8 instead. Now I don't feel very comfortable in my own town.
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Posts:
4,143
Registered:
10/4/08
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(44 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 12:13 PM
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> Mat,
>
> Agreed, but it's not just a question of the church.
> It's a matter for how the legislation is written,
> , and what rights are extended, and which rights are
> Not all folks are willing to except the idea that
> gays and hetero's are legally equal.
I completely accept the idea that gay and straight couples should enjoy the same legal rights in terms of a civil union.
If a church wants to grant a symbolic marriage to a couple that should be at their discretion.
btw..I'm a hetro male, I happen to live in Hillcrest (close to my work) a predominantly gay neighborhood in SD. I've lived here for over a year and these gay folks are the best neighbors I've ever had.
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Posts:
1,901
Registered:
6/23/08
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(43 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 12:02 PM
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Mat,
Agreed, but it's not just a question of the church. It's a matter for how the legislation is written, and what rights are extended, and which rights are not.
Not all folks are willing to except the idea that gays and hetero's are legally equal.
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Posts:
4,143
Registered:
10/4/08
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(42 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 11:54 AM
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imo there should be a pure seperation of church and state when it coms to marriages and civil unions.
A civil union and all rights pertaining should be granted to any 2 consenting adults.
Proclaiming a union of two adults a 'marriage' should be at the discretion of the individual church.
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Posts:
1,901
Registered:
6/23/08
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(41 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 11:48 AM
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Cleo hun,
>But not your perennial disconnection from the provable facts. In fact, from past discussions with me, you know better. I believe you are confusing me with somebody else.
Hardly, You're Obama's number one cheerleader around here. He has repeatedly stated he's perfectly happy with us not having the same rights as everyone else. Domestic partnerships are inadequate, and you know it. Hiding behind the obfuscation exposes that wide yellow streak in his makeup and yours.
Imagine what would be said if you were in support of something like racial discrimination? Personally, though, I don't see the difference. How puritanical of you. Thanks.
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Posts:
6,087
Registered:
9/14/06
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(40 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 11:22 AM
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> Cleo dear,
>
> >If this experience has taught me one thing and one
> thing only, it's that gay men do not like me.
>
> WTF comes to mind.... Maybe it's because you don't
> support their constitutional rights. Just a
> thought.
> 
Interesting use of the word "their", Luggy.
But not your perennial disconnection from the provable facts.
In fact, from past discussions with me, you know better.
I believe you are confusing me with somebody else.
And, I intend to leave it at that.
C.
--
Edited by CleopatraVIII at 09/01/2009 8:23 AM PDT
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Posts:
1,901
Registered:
6/23/08
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(39 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 10:58 AM
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Cleo dear,
>If this experience has taught me one thing and one thing only, it's that gay men do not like me.
WTF comes to mind.... Maybe it's because you don't support their constitutional rights. Just a thought.
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Posts:
1,901
Registered:
6/23/08
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(38 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 10:53 AM
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Cleo,
>Fact is, to make a long story short, Congress, indeed, has the Constitutional power to enact every piece of legislation about which you've been complaining.
You sound like the Bush justice department. Let me guess, you're really Harriet?
>It remains to be seen what the various investigations and court vetting of any prosecutions that are deemed appropriate will reveal.
You mean the new witch hunts? Aren't those distracting from the health care debate?? Oh wait, they're supposed to be... LMAO.
>well, these have yet to form the basis of any major Constitutional law decisions by the Supreme Court to date, if any.
Interesting sentence Cleo. Tell me again which part of the 17 enumerated powers of congress allows for nationalized health care or industry?
I'm sure you're aware that SCOTUS opinions are simply that, opinions. They form the precedent others rely on doggedly. Hell, folks could rightfully blame the court for, say, slavery. Doesn't necessarily make it right now does it?
As for politization, explain to me again the Holder decision? That's not political? LMAO> You couldn't be more partisan on this if you tried Cleo.
>Along with a refusal to use the courts for redress of grievances, and instead going through legislative bodies at all levels to promulgate, promote and pass legislation that would address those grievances.
This sentance has no object. What were you trying to say? Did the sentance get so long you forgot? Started with a conjunction? LOL...... Well, at least you used spell check....
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Posts:
6,087
Registered:
9/14/06
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(37 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 10:51 AM
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> Beagle,
>
> Howdy. sorry for conflating Cleo's alleged legal
> skills with your most excellent name....
Dear Luggy,
If this experience has taught me one thing and one thing only, it's that gay men do not like me.
Not that there is anything wrong with that!
C.
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Posts:
1,901
Registered:
6/23/08
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(36 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Sep 1, 2009 10:39 AM
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Beagle,
Howdy. sorry for conflating Cleo's alleged legal skills with your most excellent name....
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Posts:
759
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9/1/08
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(35 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Aug 31, 2009 6:26 PM
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> It is positively amusing that after 8 years of
> assault on the Constitution that is the Unpatriot
> Act, MCA, TARP, and so many other fascist policies
> delivered by the government and supported by most all
> on the right, now suddenly we have great weeping and
> gnashing of teeth that all of a sudden the govt
> considers some sort of public health care.
>
> Ah, truth is stranger than fiction every time.
Beautifully put! On both points! Among the gnashing and weeping you forgot the beating of chests.
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Posts:
12,197
Registered:
7/19/06
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(34 of 48)
Re: Left and Right in the V.S.
Aug 31, 2009 6:04 PM
Rate this post:
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> > > > I wouldn't complain about spelling
> errors
> > if I
> > > > couldn't comprise a simple paragraph
> using
> > > proper
> > > > tense and grammar. An old adage about
> pots
> > and
> > > > kettles comes to mind, lol.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Edited by magialuna at 08/31/2009 2:20
> PM
> > PDT
> > >
> > >
> > > Please check out this post, 17, with regard
> to
> > the
> > > new rules.
> > >
> > > Thank you.
> > >
> > > C.
> >
> > What new rules?
>
>
> Ditto, 17.
>
> Thanks so much,
>
> C.
We are not supposed to post in certain threads, it doesn't mean we can never respond to posts in other threads. Stop trying to pick and chose who gets to post on this forum.
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