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Most of us here in modern society U.S.A. obviously do not follow the principled health prescription that science tells us we should. We eat wrong, we do not get nearly enough sleep, we stress, and on, and on, and on. Now that is not all of us that do this. By and by, most of us realize that eating Big Macs continually is bad for our health. We realize that smoking is going to kill us more than likey should we keep it up. These truths are obvious. My view is that in understanding moderation, these things are really not so bad if you can make up for the "sins" of a not so perfectly healthy lifestyle by compensating as soon as possible. Have a night out drinking -- take a long walk or a jog as soon as possible.
My point is that Maher has embarked on an almost Tom Cruise insanity regarding modern Health Care and more vividly - eating red meat. That opinion of his is fine. I know plenty of Vegans and I admire their commitment. Myself however being a typical guy that really loves a perfectly cooked steak is really pissed off on how Maher just assumes his righteous position and that guys like me are the wrong side of the fence. This coming from a guy who blatantly points out , almost bragging, his drug use of marijuana. What a MAROON! "It's not the mosquitoes --- It's the Swamp." What the fuck are you talking about? If you were born before any chance of a cabal from corporations, say 1000 years ago - knowing what you know now, what are your chances of living the age you are today? Modern Science is working. Maybe you are just getting too old and have silently become a fuddy duddy.
Scientific fact comes from a rigorous trial of proven tests. There are some, and always will be outliers that do not support the data. Ever know somebody in the family that was a lifelong smoker and lived to be 80? I do. Why is it that our longevity on earth is higher than ever before? In general we really do not know jack shit about the true effects, other than we are living longer. I think one key is MODERATION. Another would be luck or unluck of our genetic code. Eat a juicy steak every night, chances are something will go wrong with your heart. But maybe not. Smoke a joint everyday, chances are something will go wrong with your lungs. But maybe not. Quit being such a self righteous A_HOLE, Bill, about Health and Diet. We can't all afford live in chefs and dieticians gauging our every intake. Diet is important -- but so are our habits you damn fool!
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There Is No Spoon
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Edited by bigXredXdog at 02/25/2008 2:38 PM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 29, 2008 11:25 PM
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Since we are talking about global warming/climate change I would liek to mention that the idea is not that hard to understand. I think it is even harder to misunderstand it really. a lot of science is not as mystical as people make it out to be. Global warming, caused by rising greenhouse gases; is the primary mover on what is called climate change. Climate change is the total perceived change on our climate including natural and man made causes. Now, natural trends are the foundation of it all no doubt and things like the ice ages, for instance have been connected to changing orbits from the sun over long periods. So when you have climatologists telling you that man made factors are the large chunk of the effect on the climate then you have to peer into what exactly we are doing to our planet and at what costs. Climate change does have a lot of factors and such global changes have very diverse way of expressing them creating different symptoms all from the same root cause.
Now a big entry of symptoms has been huge changes and conflicts within ecosytems. The classic is that some bug or prey that feeds more advanced animals hatch and mature off season and then are not available for the nesting animals that have evolved to take advantage of the availability of the insects. Huge and diverse bird societies have been collapsing off the coast of California do to a similar effect with the local fish population. Since we do so much more to destroy ecosystems such as over fishing, other heavy and toxic pollutants, pesticides, etc people feel that global warming is just more of the same. In many ways it is the global part of it that is the big problem. If only local areas would experience climate change then there wouldn't be such high stakes. The idea is that few if any parts of the world will miss the effects of climate change. Ecosytem collapse would be just as common.
People give many examples of bad weather in the past but what they don't understand is that global warming increases strange and unpredictable weather. Why would we ask for more of it? And no, the sky is not falling, we are not doomed, but we are not off the hook because we are not just doomed. We are gonna have a lot of time to figure out what to do because we are heading straight for the tipping point. That is the point where they doubt we can reverse or prevent the real damage of climate change cause by global warming. If that happens the we can spend the next few generations figuring out what to do about survival.
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 29, 2008 10:56 PM
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Another big point about the cows and their wastes is that we don't spread it around like the cows would in the wild. You see one cow pie or one pile of pig shit and its no big deal. Take an entire industrial livestock farm and you get huge frequently overflowing pools of waste. The pools are huge hazards and often reak so horribly that towns nearby in fact get sick and poisoned from the pollution. If it wasn't so condensed then it wouldn't biodegrade so... explosively.
Funny I thought this topic was about weed vs redmeat
Bill often mentions he goes to chinese doctors and eats what they tell him. More veggies, lots of seafood, less fat, no sugar more or less. Its mostly like preventative medicine. Reminds me of two quotes.
"Let medicine be thy food and let food be thy medicine" Hypocrates
"What goes into your mouth is likely to be what makes you sick and what comes out of your mouth is likely to be the source of your trouble." Unkown Chinese
I think a lot of Americans have immature palates. So many people I know barely reach beyond the pizza and pop or pizza and beer mentality. I went vegan for about a year, tried it out. I am very happy I did because now I love good food made fresh and it forced me to learn how to really cook. I have since given it up but now I just simply eat more vegetables than I did. It all kinda worked out but now I don't like much processed or fast food. I guess we could all eat better but most of us eat garbage any way so any improvement is great.
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 27, 2008 2:52 PM
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Titannia --
Some arguments are indisputable: Such as - You cannot tell me that the sum of the interior angles of any triangle do not add up to 180 degrees: The Global Warming - Sky Is Falling / We Are All Going To Die, issue for all intents and purposes at this moment in time is nothing more than a Propoganda Hoax - NOT PROVEN BY ANY WAY.
Greenhouse Gas / Global Warming / and Climate Change are all COMPLETELY different process's that, unfortunately have been completely misleading - and convoluted by the Mainstram Media that people really just do not know what they are talking about anymore.
>Remember that animal farming not only involves a LOT of >methane gas from cows burping and farting, but also >involves quite a bit of machinery and chemicals these >days.
REALLY? Then tell me this: Who Run Bartertown?? ( I bet you don't even get it)
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There Is No Spoon
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Edited by bigXredXdog at 02/27/2008 11:53 AM
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Edited by bigXredXdog at 02/27/2008 11:54 AM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 27, 2008 1:09 PM
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> > Eat your steak if you want, but Bill's right. It's not that good for you, it's full of antibiotics and hormones, and of all the things we do, it's the WORST thing for the environment.
In the wild, herds of cows, bisons, and wildebeests aren't slaughtered en masse dumping their flesh and blood into rivers until the river is so full of cow that passing animals catch whatever diseases the cow was carrying, just by flying over or swimming past.
>
nice
its the hormones in the "chicken" nuggets too.....
its a wonder why our women are developing faster!
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 27, 2008 12:19 PM
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> I really appreciate this informative response on the
> matter. I still find it difficult to believe that
> the animal farming industry produces more CO2 than
> emissions from all the cars in the world
Remember that animal farming not only involves a LOT of methane gas from cows burping and farting, but also involves quite a bit of machinery and chemicals these days.
Also that we're breeding them in unbelievable numbers because we eat them EVERY DAY.
> For every scientist that buys into the global
> l warming - there are equal numbers that do not.
Not true at all. It's more like, for every ten that buy in, there's one that doesn't. There are thousands of scientists who are confident that global warming is a reality and that humans have some effect on it, as opposed to hundreds who feel that humans aren't having an impact.
> take on the question - would mankind be better off if
> the emission of CO2 gas was eliminated? That is like
> asking the question - If you are driving the speed of
> light and turn your headlights on, can you still see
> in front of you? I think they are impossible
> questions to answer since they are not based in
> reality.
No, it's like asking the question, if you quit smoking, will you feel better, avoid lung cancer, and maybe stop coughing as much? And the answer is yes, but you probably won't quit smoking anyway because if you're a smoker, you don't WANT to quit. And you will buy into any study you can find, that says smoking isn't bad for you.
> "More cows = more cowshit. Cows, other livestock, and
> their shit turns out to be a huge source of global
> warming gasses. "
>
> There were a lot more animals shittin on the ground
> before we got here.
Not cows. People didn't used to have to eat three portions of cow every single day, and so we didn't have to breed cows at a ration of several hundred cows to every one person.
Ever see a dragonfly with wings
> as big as a seagull take a shit? Try imagining
> millions of just that species alone?
Not really relevant, bigx, but very cute.
> Human population graphs show a 'sawtooth' effect,
> because again and again humans have found escapes
> from over-population by methods to increase their
> food supplies through new inventions - weapons to
> hunt with, then agriculture, irrigation, plant
> breeding and fertilisers and now genetic engineering
> - as well as by wars, conquests, migrations and
> imports. But this does not permanently solve the risk
> of over-population, because what then happens is that
> each invention has permitted a further leap in
> population that then brings on another crisis.
Very true, but I don't see what it has to do with global warming or environmental pollutants.
Eat your steak if you want, but Bill's right. It's not that good for you, it's full of antibiotics and hormones, and of all the things we do, it's the WORST thing for the environment.
In the wild, herds of cows, bisons, and wildebeests aren't slaughtered en masse dumping their flesh and blood into rivers until the river is so full of cow that passing animals catch whatever diseases the cow was carrying, just by flying over or swimming past.
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"And, finally, New Rule: If America's richest one-percent are now so rich that even a five-star hotel isn't good enough, it's time to bring back the guillotine."
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Edited by titannia at 02/27/2008 9:20 AM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 27, 2008 11:24 AM
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>It turns out that Pot is America's most valuable cash crop. >We produce, dollar for dollar more pot in this country than >any other agricultural product. I'll let that sink in...
Gee -- I thought Strawberries were the biggest value?
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There Is No Spoon
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 26, 2008 11:46 AM
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I really appreciate this informative response on the matter. I still find it difficult to believe that the animal farming industry produces more CO2 than emissions from all the cars in the world -- I never trust everything I read- But I do try to keep an open mind and aware of the data.
For every scientist that buys into the global warming - there are equal numbers that do not. My take on the question - would mankind be better off if the emission of CO2 gas was eliminated? That is like asking the question - If you are driving the speed of light and turn your headlights on, can you still see in front of you? I think they are impossible questions to answer since they are not based in reality.
Volcanic / Seismic / and even Cosmic activity can be the most significant contributor - What caused the FOUR Major Ice Ages we know happened on earth? What about the minor ones not even quantified? If there is cooling --probably had some warming too. A minor shift on earths axis? Whatever - they still do not have an answer for any of it even today - everybody has a theory. Think about it -- when you / they say;
"More cows = more cowshit. Cows, other livestock, and their shit turns out to be a huge source of global warming gasses. "
There were a lot more animals shittin on the ground before we got here. Ever see a dragonfly with wings as big as a seagull take a shit? Try imagining millions of just that species alone?
Human population graphs show a 'sawtooth' effect, because again and again humans have found escapes from over-population by methods to increase their food supplies through new inventions - weapons to hunt with, then agriculture, irrigation, plant breeding and fertilisers and now genetic engineering - as well as by wars, conquests, migrations and imports. But this does not permanently solve the risk of over-population, because what then happens is that each invention has permitted a further leap in population that then brings on another crisis.
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There Is No Spoon
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Edited by bigXredXdog at 02/26/2008 8:51 AM
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Edited by bigXredXdog at 02/26/2008 8:53 AM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 11:50 PM
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Ok you started a long topic and I guess I have a long one to help you understand bill's point but this is how I understand him.
For starters Bill comes from two main sides on this. First the ethical one which he feels strongly about regards treating animals well. Take that as you will or don't but that helps shore up his point of view for himself.
I would argue that you are what you eat. When you or I eat meat it is most often from an animal that was raised in an industrial farm and it has been treated as little like a living animal as the farm can get away with for the sake of getting the most meat for the least dollar. Different and better qualities of meat certainly exist but most meat come from animals treated this way. To keep the animals alive they are pumped full of hormones, and antibiotics. With science and nutrition they could certainly make larger, better animals but they go for uniform sizes so that the slaughtering machines have less variables to account for... etc. etc.
Hardly the bunch of strong healthy animals that say might make you strong and healthy. This is also the source of all of these outbreaks of contaminated foods. The animals are kept in total squalor. The squalor is just part of the need to make the most money for as little as possible and is hardly and accident. It is also why they need the antibiotics in the first place. Besides just how the animals are treated, the industry of containing them and treating them as static, un-living commodities forces people to deal with their byproducts in volumes that would never be possible before. More cows = more cowshit. Cows, other livestock, and their shit turns out to be a huge source of global warming gasses. Al gore caught lots of flack from the vegetarian community for not mentioning that in his movie. Some studies even point to industrial animal farming as producing more co2 than even emissions from all of the cars in the world. Bill touched on this in his feb 22nd show even.
Compare all of that to the simple fact that with the same land it takes to feed one person beef you need as much water and land to feed countless people a vegetarian meal. It become more and more obvious that in our rush for meat we are working against our own interests at nearly every step.
Now when you add that to the health effects on the typical American and you wonder why any one thought of any of this in the first place. I'll certainly admit that meat is not bad by itself. It is even great for you in many ways. Here in America though it is hard to say that nearly any one "needs" the nutritional density of meat daily and doubtfully even weakly. Certainly even the end cost in the person of eating red meat then becomes minor maybe in contrast to all of the sugar, other empty carbohydrates, bad fats, preservatives, and salt. But the meat we eat is not the meat our grandparents or even our parents ate and only has more bad qualities in it, antibiotics and pathogens for examples. Due to their poor, mostly corn-fed diet, they are also not early as nutritious
Again, the problem isn't the meat itself but the volume, the near total rejection of the life of the animals and how that filters down to consumer. If you were to live on old style farms you would keep your cow for a while, milk it, breed it, use its shit for your crops, maybe kill it during winter when you had younger cows to fill its role. Now days our huge farms factories stave off death for the cows only long enough until they are the right size. That's it. As a consumer at the top of the food chain you will have the highest concentration of contaminates in your body of all of the animals below you. Its like the condors who were dieing from the ddt in the bugs that their prey ate that they ate in turn.
So sure, eat the most inefficient, most cruel, and most contaminated food that was created by god or man and see how long it can last without adverse side-effects for yourself or for the environment. All of this at the price the lowest bidder is willing offer. At least consider red meat to be treat or a sometimes food because there is a lot to a well balanced diet that is quickly overlooked when you you eat something so fatty and filling as red meat.
Now considering the other part of your point that pot is so bad I'll agree that it is not simply harmless and fun as said in Bill's act. It is mostly harmless though in contrast to the way it is treated by the law. Also to riff on another poster here and the topic at large. It turns out that Pot is America's most valuable cash crop. We produce, dollar for dollar more pot in this country than any other agricultural product. I'll let that sink in...
More than beef, more than corn, soybeans, or any thing else we grow. So Bill might be touching on a popular chord with pot as he hints at an unpopular yet still true one about meat.
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Edited by beansnrice at 02/25/2008 8:52 PM
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Edited by beansnrice at 02/25/2008 8:53 PM
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Edited by beansnrice at 02/25/2008 8:57 PM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 9:59 PM
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> My point is --- It's all good, if thats what you
> like. Sheryl Crow esque---"If It Makes You
> Happy.........It Can't Be That Bad...." I love weed.
> Don't get me wrong. I just think it has just as
> s much a chance of killing me, as anything else.
> So How do you like your steak?
>
> We all gotta die someday--------------Me too (Maybe.)
>
> --
> There Is No Spoon
You know something the rest of us don't?
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 9:54 PM
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I also think Matt Taibii blew his fast sharp rise in stock by not either having the balls to call his "boss" out on his fuckup's - or not catching the shit Kingston was dishing.
Andrew Sullivan would have lambasted this Connie out on that shit--Guaranteed. Pretty ironic that Sully would have "straightened" Bill out-----again.
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There Is No Spoon
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 9:34 PM
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> Sure Bill got a raw deal after 9/11 but who would
> have thought he was such a cry baby.. the vegetarian
> diet must be boosting his estrogen levels and the
> drug use must have finally taken its toll, Bill is a
> fountain of nay-saying with no solutions. this often
> happens to men that suffer the lose of their penis,
> Poor vindictive Bill grinding his ax in
> impotence-town.
I've been saying this on other posts recently after what I saw last Friday night and that is; Bill Maher has officiallyachieved status of Complete DEUSHNESS!- He is a total Self Serving Barnum and Bailey, and we are supposed to be the suckers? He got winfalled from an amateur "Closet dancer" repub Connie: After watching that jackoff get away with the first lie was like watching a kid go down a water slide in the middle of summer. He is supposed to be professional?
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There Is No Spoon
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 9:23 PM
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My point is --- It's all good, if thats what you like. Sheryl Crow esque---"If It Makes You Happy.........It Can't Be That Bad...." I love weed. Don't get me wrong. I just think it has just as much a chance of killing me, as anything else.
So How do you like your steak?
We all gotta die someday--------------Me too (Maybe.)
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There Is No Spoon
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 9:23 PM
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Bill Maher is just another freak in the media circus another mouth churning garbage and no solution, just another of the never ending string of arm chair quarterbacks sitting on the side lines taking shots at the people out in the trenches.
Sure Bill got a raw deal after 9/11 but who would have thought he was such a cry baby.. the vegetarian diet must be boosting his estrogen levels and the drug use must have finally taken its toll, Bill is a fountain of nay-saying with no solutions. this often happens to men that suffer the loss of their penis, Poor vindictive Bill grinding his ax in impotence-town.
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Edited by NazzNegg at 02/25/2008 6:30 PM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 9:04 PM
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The only people who test marijuana and state that it produces adverse physiological and psychosocial results are Doctors and Scientists paid off by the Alcohol and Prescription drug lobby. As someone who is in the Social sciences, I know that the Social sceinces and medical sciences are corrupted to the core by prescription drug companies. Therefore, you should not trust those who make adverse marijuana medical testing results.
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Edited by smokefreak2006 at 02/25/2008 6:05 PM
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Re: Bill Maher - Smoke Pot - but Don't Eat Meat:
Feb 25, 2008 8:26 PM
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NACHOS extra everything!
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