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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
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Posts:
4,672
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1/15/06
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(77 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:40 PM
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>>I cannot believe I am reading all of this. How do you change the discourse when you are too much of a wuss to do the right thing?
Be honest, do you think Obama will change his muslim tune if elected? He still has another election to go. Is it ok if he holds off on pointing out that there are a lot of good muslims until after the 2012 election?
I am in awe of the justifications being given for ignoring bigotry. I guess I was raised different.<<
You are a child.
--
wicky/effi
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Posts:
4,505
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(76 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:38 PM
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> By his words and constituency? His constituency is
> at this moment defending him ignoring the bigotry of
> his opponent to cover his own ass.
By "constituency" I mean the real constituency, not the few here on a chat board at RT having this particular discussion. I'm talking about who he speaks to, and it's an incredibly broad constituency. I won't shy away from the fact that African Americans and people of color in this country find this a remarkable moment, meaningful, as women did with Hillary and some say with Palin. This is nothing to scoff at; it is a signal moment in our society.
"Ignoring the bigotry of his opponent to cover his own ass" is a really harsh charge, given that every day he leaves his home to make this claim for the presidency he has fought the bigotry of this culture, at no small risk.
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Posts:
268
Registered:
10/25/08
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(75 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:37 PM
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&. Luckily, the stable
> prevail.
I agree with that ...if Obama wins I have feeling there are big group of Reublicans who will want to "prevail" in this sense and re-claim their party
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Posts:
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(74 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:36 PM
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> >>Right about what? Do you realize you folks are
> arguing that its ok to excuse bigotry if it furthers
> a political career?<<
>
>
> In the political system we have now, unfortunately
> that is the truth. Obama wants to raise the level of
> discourse. He can't do that without being elected.
> No-one else has even showed interest in doing that.
> . We have to play the game with the cards that are
> dealt.
>
> --
> wicky/effi
I cannot believe I am reading all of this. How do you change the discourse when you are too much of a wuss to do the right thing?
Be honest, do you think Obama will change his muslim tune if elected? He still has another election to go. Is it ok if he holds off on pointing out that there are a lot of good muslims until after the 2012 election?
I am in awe of the justifications being given for ignoring bigotry. I guess I was raised different.
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Posts:
1,516
Registered:
11/9/05
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(73 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:34 PM
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Some people just won't feel like their lives had any meaning unless they are actually able to provoke "The Race War". New tactics, new codes, and new bullshit pops up every generation. Luckily, the stable prevail.
--
McCain says he'll follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell, but he won't even follow him to the cave where he lives.....
Senator Barack Obama
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(72 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:30 PM
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>>Right about what? Do you realize you folks are arguing that its ok to excuse bigotry if it furthers a political career?<<
In the political system we have now, unfortunately that is the truth. Obama wants to raise the level of discourse. He can't do that without being elected. No-one else has even showed interest in doing that. We have to play the game with the cards that are dealt.
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wicky/effi
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Posts:
268
Registered:
10/25/08
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(71 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:25 PM
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> You are taking him to task for not speaking out about
> racism/ethnic taunts during this campaign? Really? He
> is himself a symbol of the rejection of this kind of
> thinking, and a symbol of
> a changing American demographic. He embodies, lives,
> speaks of, the change away from bitter ethnic
> divisions. If anyone has conveyed this message by
> virtue of his words (explicit speeches on race and
> equity) and his constituency and his own life story,
> it's O. To miss that about him is to miss, well, much
> of why he is where he is at this moment.
I thought Colin Powell's " so what if someone is a Muslim " was on the money...same thought...so what if Obama or anyone is advocating democratic socialism ?
There seem to be so many labels that people are afraid of here rather than the substance ( sadly I think I understand why ) .I happen to think that many of the tenets of democratic socialism ( as practised in Europe ) failed but I would debate the substance, not attach a label and scream " "unclean , unclean !! "
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Posts:
4,499
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(70 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:24 PM
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> You are taking him to task for not speaking out about
> racism/ethnic taunts during this campaign? Really? He
> is himself a symbol of the rejection of this kind of
> thinking, and a symbol of
> a changing American demographic. He embodies, lives,
> speaks of, the change away from bitter ethnic
> divisions. If anyone has conveyed this message by
> virtue of his words (explicit speeches on race and
> equity) and his constituency and his own life story,
> it's O. To miss that about him is to miss, well, much
> of why he is where he is at this moment.
By his words and constituency? His constituency is at this moment defending him ignoring the bigotry of his opponent to cover his own ass. Yes, his words and his constituency say a lot about him and why he is where he is. I just don't think it shows a positive.
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Posts:
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7/15/07
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(69 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:20 PM
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> > Exactly, Effi. It's the same argument I think
> Jet
> > made earlier, about how small parties haven't
> yet won
> > enough national presence to have an effecct.
> The
> > campaign is certainly a bid for getting the big
> > stage. If you're principled in every respect
> the
> > whole way through, you won't win, leaving us
> with the
> > sad irony that "may the best person win" is
> > inherently impossible.
> >
> > Obama wasn't descended from the clouds by the
> Sun
> > God. For God's sake, he's from Chicago.
> >
> > --
> > Edited by editor2 at 10/29/2008 1:07 PM PDT
>
>
> Wouldn't it be lovely if Last said ... one time ...
> "Oh yeah, you're right."
> ::sigh::
>
Right about what? Do you realize you folks are arguing that its ok to excuse bigotry if it furthers a political career?
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Posts:
4,505
Registered:
6/11/07
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(68 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:15 PM
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You are taking him to task for not speaking out about racism/ethnic taunts during this campaign? Really? He is himself a symbol of the rejection of this kind of thinking, and a symbol of
a changing American demographic. He embodies, lives, speaks of, the change away from bitter ethnic divisions. If anyone has conveyed this message by virtue of his words (explicit speeches on race and equity) and his constituency and his own life story, it's O. To miss that about him is to miss, well, much of why he is where he is at this moment.
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Posts:
4,499
Registered:
7/15/07
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(67 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:10 PM
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> Exactly, Effi. It's the same argument I think Jet
> made earlier, about how small parties haven't yet won
> enough national presence to have an effecct. The
> campaign is certainly a bid for getting the big
> stage. If you're principled in every respect the
> whole way through, you won't win, leaving us with the
> sad irony that "may the best person win" is
> inherently impossible.
>
> Obama wasn't descended from the clouds by the Sun
> God. For God's sake, he's from Chicago.
>
> --
> Edited by editor2 at 10/29/2008 1:07 PM PDT
What if it were Jews and not muslims at issue? Woud it be ok for him to turn a blind eye to the bigotry in the quest for the presidency?
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Posts:
4,672
Registered:
1/15/06
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(66 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:09 PM
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> Exactly, Effi. It's the same argument I think Jet
> made earlier, about how small parties haven't yet won
> enough national presence to have an effecct. The
> campaign is certainly a bid for getting the big
> stage. If you're principled in every respect the
> whole way through, you won't win, leaving us with the
> sad irony that "may the best person win" is
> inherently impossible.
>
> Obama wasn't descended from the clouds by the Sun
> God. For God's sake, he's from Chicago.
>
> --
> Edited by editor2 at 10/29/2008 1:07 PM PDT
Wouldn't it be lovely if Last said ... one time ... "Oh yeah, you're right."
::sigh::
--
wicky/effi
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Posts:
410
Registered:
1/29/08
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(65 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:09 PM
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> > >>Both are true. Politically, he can't say "I'm
> not a
> > muslim but if I was, so what?" But morally,
> > especially if he walks the walk, he should do
> just
> > that.<<
> >
> >
> > Last - you're suggesting that he walk down two
> > different paths at the same time?
> >
>
> Not at all. I'm suggesting that if he were the great
> man people think he is, he'd do the right thing and
> not worry about the effects it will have on his
> career.
If he didnt worry about the effects that things like this would have on his career, then he wouldnt be where he is at this point in his career.
But, being who he is, he'd rather win this
> election than stand up and say what Powell did.
Powell never ran for election. They tried to get him to but he did not, so he's in a different postion to say things that wont effect his career.
> He is taking the path of least resistance. I
> attribute it to his lack of personal character. You
> can assign your own motives to why he is.
And whats wrong with the path of least resistance? I would like to know 1 single person that hasnt taken that path at least a few times throughout their life, especially in where their career is concerned. Does that mean we all lack personal character? Not only that, but some accusations are so ridiculous, they dont deserve a serious response. And if forced into a response because of the media, an eyerolling speech seems rather appropriate.
--
Eric: Will you marry me Chrissy?
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Posts:
4,505
Registered:
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(64 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:06 PM
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Exactly, Effi. It's the same argument I think Jet made earlier, about how small parties haven't yet won enough national presence to have an effecct. The campaign is certainly a bid for getting the big stage. If you're principled in every respect the whole way through, you won't win, leaving us with the sad irony that "may the best person win" is inherently impossible.
Obama wasn't descended from the clouds by the Sun God. For God's sake, he's from Chicago.
--
Edited by editor2 at 10/29/2008 1:07 PM PDT
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Posts:
4,499
Registered:
7/15/07
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(63 of 242)
Oct 29, 2008 4:06 PM
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> How can one change anything without getting elected
> in the first place?
>
> --
> wicky/effi
This isn't something he could change in office any way. And if it were, he's not going to do it in the first four years when he has, by his count, 6 more to go.
This is a matter of character. If I wanted something as bad as Obama wants to be president, maybe I'd allow clear bigotry to go unchallenged. I dunno. I've never wanted anything that badly.
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