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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
When this election comes down to race is there really any chance for a candidate that uses it as an unspoken ralling cry as Obama does.
It's all falling apart now with the "Divorce" between the Reverend and the Obama family.......if it's even really true.
I am not sure I buy into it at all. Sure they may really be upset with each other but....if Obama became President he would immediately forgive Wright and bring him back into his fold. He would have to. In order to bring the country together he would have to forgive the man.
This country has a racial divide that is vast. There are people that are very unforgiving and people that hold old grudges. It seems odd that the same people that tell Homosexuals that equal rights can only come when the country is ready to except it, also tell everyone that the time to get past racial prejudice is now....forcibly.
We live in a country that takes over nations at the drop of a hat and dig in for 100 years. Look at Hawaii. Yesterday protesters for Hawaiian independence took over the Iolani Palace. More than a hundred years of oppression have kept the natives poor and segregated away from tourist even though they are the true guardians of the islands and are Americans at the same time. When the issue is brought up many people laugh at the whole situation and just throw more racism into the mix by claiming that their are no native Hawaiians anymore or not enough to matter. The Hawaiian race still exists! The situation is a good example of how Obama is not helping the real problems of his own home state. He has ignored the issues of other races for that of African Americans and there struggles. Yet he must have seen the racism of his White Grandmother there against the natives of Hawaii. Where is he speaking up about this issue. He is nowhere because he does not care about it. There are racial tensions in Hawaii that would shock the average American. Where is Obama on this issue?
The same place he is with all race issues....throwing it all under the bus. Damn that Obama Campaign bus hits a lot of "speed Bumps" doesn't it?
If you have to ask where Clinton is on this issue.....you don't know recent history.
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 11:03 PM
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> > LS,
> >
> > I have no reason to doubt what you say that
> using the
> > bombs saved lives in a numerical way. Even so,
> even
> > that, still would never be a legitimate excuse
> for
> > that kind of horror.
>
> But you're ok with the other horrors we visited on
> Japan?
LS,
I'm not okay with any war.
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 11:00 PM
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This is an easy answer........
Jimmy Carter believed in using his favorite bomb......
and I understand why..........
it is called the Neutron bomb.....
it leaves infrastructure and gets rids of humans........
he called it the most humane bomb there was...
when he was president...
because you can kill all the people and move in.....
your workers the very next day.......
I think people really do not understand what war is.......
war is a result of an impasse that cannot be resolved.....
so both sides flex and try to achieve an outcome.....
so on that note.......get the troops out........
and bomb away.........let God sort it out......or whatever....
and after that bomb Mexico........
BOMBE MIT BOMBE
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Edited by Nemeses2008 at 05/05/2008 8:00 PM PDT
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 9:29 PM
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WWII took place over a period of 8 years. Estimates for the total casualties of the war vary, but most suggest that some 60 million people died in the war, including about 20 million soldiers and 40 million civilians. Many civilians died because of disease, starvation, massacres, and genocide. The Soviet Union lost around 27 million people during the war, about half of all World War II casualties. Of the total deaths in World War II, approximately 85% were on the Allied side (mostly Soviet and Chinese) and 15% on the Axis side. One estimate is that 12 million civilians died in Holocaust camps, 1.5 million by bombs, 7 million in Europe from other causes, and 7.5 million in China from other causes. Figures on the amount of total casualties vary to a wide extent because the majority of deaths were not documented. From 9 to 11 million of these civilian casualties, including around six million Jews, were systematically killed in the Holocaust. Likewise, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 civilians, mostly Chinese during the war. The US suffered approximately 418,500 military casualties.
The Vietnam War cost the United States approximately 58,000 lives and 350,000 casualties. It also resulted in between one and two million Vietnamese deaths. The war lasted approximately 10 years.
Since the War started in Iraq, there have been approximately 4,060 US military deaths. It is unclear, through various sources, what the Iraqi death toll has been to date, at least 200,000.00, probably more. The totals are further complicated by the number of insurgents who have been killed.
War is, no doubt, horrible -- not matter which side of the fence you are on.
So, the question becomes, rhetorically: If war is inevitable, for whatever reason --- is it better to end a conflict in a few days by using atomic weapons, or is it better to send in troops where US casualties will be higher and the cost of the war being billions of dollars and lasting many years?
What is the solution? What is the best approach? Whose side should suffer the least amount of casualties? Ours or our enemies?
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 6:56 PM
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japan asked for second nuke, seems they liked the first one so well, we did it again, besides it was justified they shouldn't have fucked with people who believe in creation that have nuclear knowledge to share...
see dif is iraq had nothing to do with 911 bush wanted to play family vandetta with hussein....
--
reality is not lies, if censorship of History recorded it right...
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Edited by frigerdig at 05/05/2008 3:57 PM PDT
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 6:49 PM
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> LS,
>
> I have no reason to doubt what you say that using the
> bombs saved lives in a numerical way. Even so, even
> that, still would never be a legitimate excuse for
> that kind of horror.
But you're ok with the other horrors we visited on Japan?
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 6:48 PM
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> I'm willing to bet if Benjiam Franklin was still
> alive hold a meetinf of all members of past admins
> and frankly ask them what the fuck you think your
> doing and bush 41 I know how your boy doing he's a
> goddamed moron, and buba and yor bride you was in
> office 8 years you didn't correct any of there inept
> bull shit....
>
> --
> reality is not lies, if censorship of History
> recorded it right...
I bet Franklin would do it in English.
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 5:18 PM
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4bee,
Millions of little people sharing, learning, growing, forming little communities, organizing.
This is how revolutions begin
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 4:57 PM
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RainyKincid:
> I admired the English people so much in their
> rejection and skepticism of the reasons given to go
> to war in Iraq. They were way ahead of the Americans,
> I thought. They detected the deceit and lies earlier.
Rainy, most of the times there is very little to do with the people, but plenty to do with politics.
Always has been, and always will.
The fact of us, having some forums pouring ones heart out, might one make feel good and important- but it's all it is.
--
4bee
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 4:53 PM
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oh, wow, is my number now- 666, and that # goes for many posts? 
surely, that's the left wing conspiracy!![]:)](http://boards.hbo.com/images/emoticons/devil.gif)
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Edited by 4bee at 05/05/2008 1:57 PM PDT
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 4:44 PM
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> 4Bee, you are sincerely welcome.
>
> Cleo
jā, jā - as said Karl Marx : immer bereit !
--
4bee
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 4:41 PM
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4bee,
I admired the English people so much in their rejection and skepticism of the reasons given to go to war in Iraq. They were way ahead of the Americans, I thought. They detected the deceit and lies earlier.
I figured having suffered war not that long ago themselves had a lot to do with that.
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 2:18 PM
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4Bee, you are sincerely welcome.
Cleo
--
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke
"I have spread my dreams under your feet; Tread softly because you tread on my dreams." From "He Wishes for the Cloths of Heaven", W.B. Yeats
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 1:48 PM
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Cleo wrote:
> My father flew the Schweinfurt mission and I'm sure
> he'd do it all over again.
of course, he would
> There were some pretty horrific tragedies committed
> by the Germans, 4Bee. Like those pesky Nazi
> extermination camps.
oh, Cleo, really? Thank you for telling me this.
I wouldn't know, poor me.
Even with my parents and family, who lived through 2 occupations and a war, a post war life to live, there were no stories for me to listen to , no history books to read, no films to watch, no teachers, nobody,
just by grace I came upon your instructions, Cleo.
Thank you!
> Nobody gets out clean when there's war.
>
> And remember, there are always two sides to every
> story.
Oh, Cleo, this is rich- really?
are there two sides?
You really mean it? I always thought everythings was one dimensional. Live and learn!
Thank you again!
--
4bee
--
Edited by 4bee at 05/05/2008 10:48 AM PDT
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Re: Is Obama capable of change? Is there any hope?
May 5, 2008 10:39 AM
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I'm willing to bet if Benjiam Franklin was still alive hold a meetinf of all members of past admins and frankly ask them what the fuck you think your doing and bush 41 I know how your boy doing he's a goddamed moron, and buba and yor bride you was in office 8 years you didn't correct any of there inept bull shit....
--
reality is not lies, if censorship of History recorded it right...
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