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I just saw Religulous. While on the surface it is a comedy, it is deeply profound.
Bill said what he dislikes more than a prophesy is a self-fulfilling prophesy. Then he suggests that if the world does not outgrow religion, we will destroy ourselves and our habitat. Of course, for that to be a prophesy, he would have had to say that he is certain this will happen, which he did not do. His hypothesis scared me though, because it is extremely plausible, and the points in his movie support it.
On a lighter note, Bill, if you are ever in need of an immaginary friend, you have scores of them on your very own message boards!
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QTeela (Teela with a Q)
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(18 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 11:31 PM
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Why is it that some people believe they are only good because god or jesus tells them to be? And only because there is a payoff for them in the end.
Are they saying if there is no heaven or hell to they wouldn't know any better to not behave badly?
Some of us try to live our lives to be happy and not hurt anyone because it's the best way for ALL.
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America + Bush = AMBUSH!!!!
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Edited by soc2008 at 10/05/2008 8:32 PM PDT
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(17 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 11:15 PM
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> "Religulous" Mangles Darrol Zucker's Idiotic
> Liberal-Bashing Movie at the Box Office
>
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/maher-mangl
> es-zucker-at-t_b_132064.html
>
> "The per-screen average of Religulous was three times
> that of An American Carol. Three times as many people
> showed up in each theater to see it.
>
> "As Atrios notes, there's no way that professional
> right-wing victims can argue that their humor-free
> comedy didn't get a good push from the studio.
>
> "Bottom line: Hollywood is in the business of making
> money. There's no conspiracy going on against
> conservatives. When moviegoers have to vote with
> their dollars, nobody wants to see what conservatives
> have to offer."
>
> --
> Edited by Forsythias at 10/05/2008 8:13 PM PDT
Huffington has their own forums don't they?
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(16 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 11:10 PM
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"Religulous" Mangles Darrol Zucker's Idiotic Liberal-Bashing Movie at the Box Office
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/maher-mangles-zucker-at-t_b_132064.html
"The per-screen average of Religulous was three times that of An American Carol. Three times as many people showed up in each theater to see it.
"As Atrios notes, there's no way that professional right-wing victims can argue that their humor-free comedy didn't get a good push from the studio.
"Bottom line: Hollywood is in the business of making money. There's no conspiracy going on against conservatives. When moviegoers have to vote with their dollars, nobody wants to see what conservatives have to offer."
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Edited by Forsythias at 10/05/2008 8:13 PM PDT
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(15 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 7:24 PM
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Josephus the world's best historian of the first century said he was the son of God and he was a Jew.
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Oct 5, 2008 7:20 PM
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Got lucky enough to see the movie the other day here in Kansas City, the slightly-more-liberal buckle on the Bible belt. It was what I expected ...funny, provocative, and innovative - but not much more. As always, Maher's scenes and interviews were unbeatable - a truck stop church, the 'creation science' museum, Muslims at the dome of the rock (how'd he get in there??), etc - but another Christian Maher fan summed up my feelings best- noting that Maher didn't raise the level of discourse much further than late night dorm talk during your freshman year. I couldn't be happier that he's brought religion to the forefront of the conversation again - but I wish he'd have dug deeper.
The interviews may be great, but the picture Maher chooses to paint with them is hopelessly narrow and one-sided - purposefully ignoring moderate religious voices that would hurt his point. Then he delves into the "Christ-myth" Zeitgeist style theories, that Jesus is an imitation Egyptian/Roman/etc God. It's sexy and trendy - but the ideas hopelessly inaccurate (often lies) and I never figured Maher would include these so unscrupulously. But I'm pointing out specks in the eye here - the face of Maher's film is undoubtedly a unique and transfixing one. Obviously I'm a huge fan of Maher - but regardless of that fact I'd recommend Religulous to anyone. It's a one of a kind film that achieves it's point - to make you think about your religious beliefs.
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To practice any art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow. So do it. - Kurt Vonnegut
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(13 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 4:10 PM
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Johnsson - Are you talking to me?
I don't dispute that Jesus may have existed. I believe he may have. Whether or not he was the Son of God--I do not know. Indeed, he was a good man, regardless. I don't know if God exists. I look at the ocean, the mountains, a flower....and I want to believe that there is a reason our planet is blessed with such beauty while on other planets within our solar system, there appears to be nothing. I look to the stars at night and wonder. But I do not know, no one alive knows if God is real.
I try to live my life as a good person. I am not perfect, no one is. I appreciate life and value that which is good in life. I do so because it makes me feel good and I can see the positive effect it has on others. Usually, I treat others as I myself would like to be treated. I don't do it because when I die, I expect to sit at the feet of some grey-bearded guy in a white robe, though. If there is a God, then he understands who and what I am and isn't going to punish me for sins I may have committed (especially since I haven't broken any of the ten commandments). If there isn't a God, okay. Not much I can do about that. I'll be dead.
I think that the concept of Heaven may have been invented to ease the pain of those who grieve the loss of loved ones, to give them hope of a reunion. There is no greater loss than the loss of a child. I think grieving parents needed to believe they would see their child again in an afterlife or they wouldn't have been able to go on with their own lives.
I think there were wise men who sat down and invented stories of morality to keep mankind from total debauchery and self-destruction. I believe it was invented in order to draw a line between good and bad behavior. I believe the Bible is the morality book for its time and some lessons are applicable even today, but it is grossly outdated, particularly with the advances man has made in science and medicine.
It would have been nice if somewhere in the Bible they'd given instructions on how the pyramids had been built, though.
The Bible was clearly written by man from the minds of ancient man which is why it failed to explain the complexity of how we came to be, how the planets came to be. It failed to explain many things because man did not know. Much we still don't know, but we have far more evidence than ancient man had and what we know now is far different than those explanations in Genesis.
If there truly was a God......I don't understand why He doesn't just appear between the clouds to all peoples, speaking in all languages, and setting it all straight once and for all so that there could be peace on this planet if we are truly all God's children and loved so much.
Why does He only speak to people who are clearly mentally ill? Why does Satan only speak to people who are clearly mentally ill? Back in the day, people were either blessed or possessed. Today we know they're either intelligent or stupid, crazy or sane, and the rest of us, somewhere in between.
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(12 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 3:36 PM
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keep on convincing yourself of the fact Jesus did not exist. do everything that is necessary to make you feel comfortable with your choice. however it is real easy - it is a simply matter of faith.
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Oct 5, 2008 3:33 PM
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> Also, Bill said there is no evidence that Jesus
> existed. While it is true that they story of a
> virgin birth, etc. has been repeated throughout
> history, I remember seeing a documentary that seemed
> to provide evidence that Jesus, the man, existed.
> The documentary was about finding the tomb of the
> e family of Jesus.
Plus there was also the shroud of Turin, but I dont know how conclusive that was. He probably should not have wandered into that topic, because it's sort of beside his main point.
You can believe Jesus existed and was a teacher and preacher without believing he was the son of God and rose from the dead and became "the savior"
> The audience in the movie theater was very different
> from most. People were more open. At first, I was
> afraid that there might be religious fanatics there
> intent upon harm.
My guess would be that those types wouldnt even be interested in a movie like this if they know anything about Maher or had read any reviews of the movie before hand. I think this movie is speaking to Bill's audience
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(10 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 3:30 PM
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the points in the movie support it because that is its' intent. remember you choose. the movie or God - it is your choice.
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Oct 5, 2008 3:24 PM
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QTeela -- I know the so-called "tomb" which you refer, and again, there is no proof that those are, in fact, those of Jesus' family. Like the Shroud of Turin, there is much debate on that "proof".
I thought it was particularly interesting how he points out a repeated theme in "history", pre-dating the birth of Christ, whether in religion or in myth (Greek/Roman) wherein "Gods" of one sort or another were born to virginal mothers, impregnated by other "Gods", whose sons became matryrs of one kind or another and died a poignant death, and even being resurrected some how. Some even walked on water and raised the dead! It is an old story indeed, and not original. So, how is it that this particular story, the story of Christ, has changed history so much?
I work with a woman from the South who can begrudgingly accept the "theory" of evolution, except the part about "the monkeys" as she puts it and despite evidence to the contrary. I've invited her to the Musuem of Natural History to see the extraordinary multi-million $$ exhibit on man, but she has refused. She simply argues that there's "no proof" because no one today was there at the time, so therefore, no one can prove a thing. I pointed out that no one today was around during Jesus' time either, and in fact, no one who wrote the gospels was alive during Jesus' time and were not written by Mark, Matthew, Luke or John, etc. She claims there's no proof of that, either. I said to her, "Have you ever read anything that may be contrary to what you choose to believe simply upon your faith or may provide you with the information you refuse to see?" Her convictions are all she needs. I asked her, "Don't you ever question or notice flaws in the Bible? Like, how Jonah could have possibly lived in the belly of a whale for days? He wasn't Pinocchio, you know?" Yet, like so many others, she is quick to say how Mohammad was just crazy, as were Joseph Smith, and L. Ron Hubbard.
I asked her, "If somebody walked up to you today and told you that they'd received ten instructions from a burning bush, wouldn't you run in the opposite direction and call the men in white coats?" I asked her, "Isn't it odd that those commandments don't include, "no abuse of children, no sex with children?", which has been going on since the beginning of time? When Adam and Eve left Eden, they found other villages. Where did they come from? You honestly believe that there was a woman made from a man's rib?" She answered, "If that's what God wanted."
I can't wrap my mind around that mentality. I can appreciate someone having something to believe in, from a moral standpoint, but as historical fact, I just don't. When was the last time a woman was turned into a pillar of salt?
When pushed to confront with such things, my friend eventually "dismisses" certain things in the Bible as being "written during a time when science wasn't known" and can agree the stories are "morality lessons", but as far as the New Testament, no----that's all true, every word of it, because "it happened."
I ask, "How are you so sure?" "Because I know." "How do you know? God told you?" "Because it's what I believe." And I say, "But where's your proof to support it?" "I don't need proof."
I don't get it. If I heard a voice or thought an angel came to me and told me to kill my firstborn to prove my love for God, I'd commit myself to an institution in a heartbeat. I asked her if she would do the same or if she would kill her child. She said it would all depend on "how real" it was, but would probably see a psychiatrist because she knows God wouldn't ask her to do such a thing..........
Go figure.
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Oct 5, 2008 1:42 PM
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Additional thoughts:
Bill's Mom seemed like an intelligent, original lady who was proud and supportive of her children. He must miss her so much. I wonder if his sister is anything like Bill.
Bill interviewed a Jewish leader who is against Zionism. I wonder if Gatemouth knows of the guy, and what is his opinion of that segment.
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QTeela (Teela with a Q)
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Oct 5, 2008 1:20 PM
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A lady I spoke with after seeing Religulous Friday voiced your same opinion as CBaz128 that Bill did not go into enough depth with his interview segments. We both agreed that he should make more movies on the subject of religion.
My criticism was minor; I wished they had displayed the text a little longer so I had time to read and absorb it.
Also, Bill said there is no evidence that Jesus existed. While it is true that they story of a virgin birth, etc. has been repeated throughout history, I remember seeing a documentary that seemed to provide evidence that Jesus, the man, existed. The documentary was about finding the tomb of the family of Jesus.
The audience in the movie theater was very different from most. People were more open. At first, I was afraid that there might be religious fanatics there intent upon harm, but it was a roomful of open-minded people, whom I would have liked to meet.
There ought to be a Bill Maher Fan Club (or it could have a more generic name), with local chapters, for those of us who do not believe in talking snakes, and admit that we do not know what happens after we die, or how anything exists at all.
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QTeela (Teela with a Q)
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(6 of 18)
Oct 5, 2008 10:20 AM
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I saw it yesterday. It's a great movie. I was surprised that the theater was filled for an afternoon showing and we were surrounded by teenagers who laughed a lot more than we did. When reading this thread and others, I expect to see words like exploit, biased, contrived, money etc ( sounds a lot like Michael Moore ). Religious people have nothing to complain about. Not necessary to complain about isolated voices spitting in the wind like Bill Maher or George Carlin ( they're just comedians and therefore not officially authorized anyway ) or refer to money ( gee. Bill Maher makes lots of money. golly ) or evangelists or extremists. Just turn on live tv and listen reassuringly to the casual and shameless references to the almighty as if it's an absolute, accepted and indisputable fact. News broadcasts, weather reports, political statements, corporate statements, talk shows, game shows and sports ( a PGA tournament sounds like a revival meeting ). Boxers thank the almighty for giving them the power to beat the crap out of their opponent, who must therefore be a dumb atheist. Disaster survivors thank the good lord for saving them, conveniently ignoring the devastation and their dead neighbors. Not necessary to complain about one movie asking questions. Not even necessary for me to say that if you don't like Bill's movie, go make your own ( or if you don't like Danish cartoons, go draw your own ). There have already been countless movies glorifying biblical stories and characters. I also don't agree with everything Bill says. He supports nuclear power. I thought his movie was very thorough but never mentioned overpopulation ( that gives him something in common with the politicians he criticizes ), which is a by-product of religion..."be fruitful and multiply".
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Oct 5, 2008 10:02 AM
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I'm pretty good Effi. How are you???
I agree Effi. He takes a very Bush/Cheney approach to not listening when it comes to religion or demanding that marijuana be legalized.
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"Thank you...No." --Major Charles Emerson Winchester III
"Seems we've sung, Life's last song, Poor John, So Long." --Dear John
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Oct 5, 2008 10:00 AM
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His is rather obsessed. He would be more effective is he listened a little. Listening is the most important part of communication.
How are you today Bart?
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Edited by wickyharpy at 10/05/2008 7:00 AM PDT
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