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I tend to be open to much of what some regard as breaching of boundaries; some of what I regard as breaching of boundaries.
But what about children being made privy to their parents' relationship -- to details about problems in their marriages? I bristle even as an adult. I don't view it as healthy or appropriate, perhaps for reasons Paul eloquently impresses on Laura that no child/teen should bear the burden of "caring" for a parent.
I was uncomfortable with much of tonight's episode, sympathetic as I am to the characters. What did resonate with me were Ian's last words setting his father straight: along the lines of "This isn't about me; it's about you -- what you want."
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(105 of 105)
Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 20, 2008 10:04 PM
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>
> Too bad we haven't seen Paul be as good a parent (or
> husband or patient) as he can be with his patients --
> including when we've seen him confronted by Rosie, by
> Ian, by Kate, with such matters.
Bingo
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(104 of 105)
Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 20, 2008 10:02 PM
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Paul: "Kids tend to do that when they sense the tension
-- try to get the parents to come together."
Jake: "You're probably right but he shouldn't have to do it. It's not fair."
Paul: "You're right. It's not fair."
Bingo! (I might not have this verbatim)
I was also hearted by Paul's impressing on Sophie it wasn't her responsibility to clue in her mother, even now, about his father's escapdes way back when at their home -- let alone Sophie's fault in any way that her parents didn't stay together or for any pulling away by her father from her mother/from Sophie herself, or for her mother's depression about her father's abandonment.
Too bad we haven't seen Paul be as good a parent (or husband or patient) as he can be with his patients -- including when we've seen him confronted by Rosie, by Ian, by Kate, with such matters.
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Re: Boundaries that shouldn't be Crossed
Mar 19, 2008 8:18 PM
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>
> Well put! Bet your right. Doesn't Paul also use his
> office as another Walled off area to protect him (esp
> now that he's sleeping in there on the couch)?
That's really his CASTLE - those are thick walls!
>
> Did you also notice the way the Father of Alex
> figures this out almost right away when he asked Paul
> if he was also trying to "Shrink" him too? Told Paul
> how it must be difficult for him not to do that all
> the time? Or that Paul also ADMITS this too!
It's obvious to everyone BUT Paul...
>
>
> Keep getting the ERROR Message again when I
> try to PM you! Is it my box or your box that needs
> cleaning up this time?
I think it's yours - mine's empty
Remember to clear the "Inbox" and "Sent", too...
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(102 of 105)
Re: Boundaries that shouldn't be Crossed
Mar 19, 2008 7:45 PM
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>>>It seems like Paul is ONLY able to relate to others as the ANALYST. And he refers to Gina's "cold, analytical knife"??? Is that another one of the WALLS that he puts up around himself to protect himself from hurt?
Dame1974
Well put! Bet your right. Doesn't Paul also use his office as another Walled off area to protect him (esp now that he's sleeping in there on the couch)?
Did you also notice the way the Father of Alex figures this out almost right away when he asked Paul if he was also trying to "Shrink" him too? Told Paul how it must be difficult for him not to do that all the time? Or that Paul also ADMITS this too!
Poor Paul. Do they have "Deprograming" programs for Shrinks like him?
Is there a way he can learn to stop treating his family and everyone else as if they were also his patients? 
Keep getting the ERROR Message again when I try to PM you! Is it my box or your box that needs cleaning up this time?
AnaHedonia
These Harville Hendrix books that talk about the Shadow side, and how "our shadow sides look for a "match" in the other person so we can fix ourselves" sounds just like Jung's Anima & Animus.
Something also tells me that even IF Paul wasn't a therapist, he still would not listen very well or truly hear what Kate is saying to him.
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Re: Boundaries that shouldn't be Crossed
Mar 18, 2008 1:08 PM
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>
> It's also got to be frustrating for them the way
> Paul TREATS his WIFE and KIDS like they were also
> HIS PATIENTS.
It seems like Paul is ONLY able to relate to others as the ANALYST.
And he refers to Gina's "cold, analytical knife"???
Is that another one of the WALLS that he puts up around himself to protect himself from hurt?
>
> Rosie was right when she called Paul on this and told
> him the right kind of questions he should be asking
> were was she happy? Did Noah make her feel good about
> herself, etc.
That would be a genuine way to demonstrate caring - and hopefully set the tone for the other person to feel comfortable about opening up and sharing feelings and information...
>
> Paul also admitted she was right.
After he gets called on it..
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Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 18, 2008 12:38 PM
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No, Gina called Imago BS because most of it IS pop psych BS!
Gina brought up Imago communication. Has anyone read the Harville Hendrix books? Our shadow sides look for a "match" in the other person so we can fix ourselves. The episodes about Kate and Paul are true to form. Paul, as husband and therapist, cannot listen or truly hear what Kate is saying to him. The listening ability fostered by the imago listening process i essential for real communication. It is hard to practice and I'm guessing that is why Gina said it is sort of BS.
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(99 of 105)
Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 17, 2008 9:34 PM
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What the character of Sophie was exposed to was not just bad behavior, she was exposed to bad behavior presented as normal or what was right. That is where the neurosis begins. Misinformation. Her father didn't "get in there" and teach her that what he did in front of her was wrong. To the contrary. In her explanations to Paul, her father did no wrong and still does no wrong in her eyes. This is the damage. It is not wrong to fail in our children's eyes. What is wrong, is not to teach them the lessons we have learned by our own flaws.
I divorced my son's mother and lived a life of reckless behavior that hurt a lot of good women in my life. I owe it to my son to teach him my mistakes, so he doesn't have to waste his time doing what I did, and instead live his life with true purpose and meaning, knowing what is right and wrong.
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(98 of 105)
Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 17, 2008 9:19 PM
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I agree with your opinion on the plight children have growing up in todays world with all its technology and all the deadly dangers available. I think having an open door of conversation with your own children ( age appropriate) is vital! I will look for the "merchants of cool" on PBS sounds interesting!
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Re: Boundaries CROSSED at the FUNERAL of ALEX
Mar 17, 2008 9:01 PM
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Talk about crossing Boundaires! That SLUT Laura had some nerve showing up at this Funeral.
What was she thinking? That its ok to strut around in her high heels flaunting her stupid butt in front of the wife of Alex and his son just so she could flirt with Paul some more?!?!
Why couldn't it have been Laura who died?
She is sooooooo BORING. Makes me SNORE each time she's on screen with Paul.
God what does this man see in this BRAIN DEAD woman?
The moment Paul begins talking ABOUT HIMSELF she has to Go again! Run Away again!
Unless the topic of coversation is about HER, she's not interested in anything Paul has to say about himself!
Is it any wonder why she knows almost NOTHING about him other than he has kids and didn't wear his wedding ring a couple of times when he took it off to do dishes?
JFC! Please, please have someone KILL this stupid Woman to get her off the show!
This is the only way we'll ever be able to MOVE ON and get some peace from Paul's mooning over her all the damn time!
On the other hand, it also was nice meeting Daniel the Gay Doc though. Didn't he also use to be Claire's counselor or therapist in SFU?
Why was he in charge of calling people and handing out directions to the cemetary?
--
Edited by Two25 at 03/17/2008 7:08 PM
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Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 17, 2008 4:56 PM
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Hmmm...Yes lets not ask. Children today are doing a fine job of navigating the sexual waters all by themselves. Hmmmm. 1 in 4 teen females has an STD and the 18-25 hetero african american female is the fastest growing segment of the HIV population. Yes indeed lets keep our prying noses out of our children's lives. I mean, whats the worst that can happen? They can just simply die or, infect someone elses kid. Incredible price to pay for privacy. I ain't ready to pay that price. I don't approach my kids like the Paul character, but I do ask straight foward and meaningful questions. Just as he can ask me. Again I work in a kids hospital(ER). I see the results of parents playing the hands off game. And shouting down rules is the same as hands off. You got to get in there and be apart of their lives. If not they have an entire world they can access by means of the internet.
Our children need our parental direction. Look at what society is teaching them....Mass misinformation. In the words of Zack de la Rocha..."You'd better beware of retribution with mind war, 20/20 visions and murals with metaphors."
If you doubt how hard media is working to misinform your child...Check out "The Merchants of Cool" on PBS.org
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Re: Boundaries that shouldn't be Crossed
Mar 17, 2008 4:33 PM
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> >
> > IMO, Emotionally speaking Paul's way too
> involved
> > with his patients. Instead of FACING his own
> > Childhood WOUNDS, he's living
> VICARIOUSLY
> > through his patients ... keeps trying to FIX
> them ...
> > instead of FIXING HIMSELF.
> >
> > His wife and kids suffer also as a result of
> this.
>
> IMO, I agree with above, Two25. Why it's
> happened may be another matter.
> Is it the old joke, "The shoemaker's kids go
> barefoot?"
> My Dad was a plumber but none of the toilets
> ever worked properly in our house
> Imagine our frustration??
> >
> >
As you know, my imagination doesn't need to work very hard to recognize your frustration over not having a properly working toliet!
>
> > It's not Rosie's place to be a "Go Between" for
> her
> > parents, anymore than she should be finding a
> job for
> > her boyfriend Noah.
> >
> > Unless its an emergency situation of some kind,
> these
> > kinds of BOUNDARY LINES (their sex lives)
> between
> > parents and kids shouldn't be crossed.
> >
> IMO, this put's an undue burden on children.
It's also got to be frustrating for them the way Paul TREATS his WIFE and KIDS like they were also HIS PATIENTS.
As a therapist, he should also know better than to be SPYING and PRYING into the sex lives of Ian and Rosie the way he does.
Rosie was right when she called Paul on this and told him the right kind of questions he should be asking were was she happy? Did Noah make her feel good about herself, etc.
Paul also admitted she was right.
But then Rosie ... who didn't like the 3RD DEGREE GRILLING that Paul gave her ... also began acting just like her father right after that .... by PRYING into his Sex Life! 
So its do as she says, but not as she does herself?
Oh well. What else can one expect with Paul as her ROLE MODEL?
What about Alex SPYING and PRYING into Paul's life?
Was that LEGAL?
Could Paul have reported Alex for that?
Had him arrested for BREAKING the LAW?
Didn't that Peterson guy also break the law by ILLEGALLY PRYING into the lives of other people who knew his still missing wife?
Still can't believe that STUPID IDIOT Paul told Alex about how he MASTURBATES either!!!
After Alex asked him about this, he should have told him off the same way as he did Jake and Amy. Told him that question was none of his damn business, and threatened to stop treating him if he didn't stop PRYING into Paul's PERSONAL life the way he kept doing.
--
Edited by Two25 at 03/17/2008 1:42 PM
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Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 17, 2008 3:54 PM
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I think being upfront & honest with your own kids is ok. I think that there are some things a parent shouldnt do like perhaps "sophies father" having sex with models in front of Sophie, those are serious boundary violations. If a parent wants to talk to there kid about the marriage potentially ending, I dont see that as harmful as long as it handled in a sensitive way without putting blame on another party and without demonizing the situation. That way it opens the door for the kid to express there feelings and opinions about how it affects them.
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Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 17, 2008 12:24 PM
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Burden on Children?...You can't have it both ways, as Ian's character put it. Kate and Paul didn't place that burden on Rosie's lap. Rosie found out. It is totally amazing that you feel it is better that children find out their parents indescretions by accident, than to be told the truth by the offending party. That must have been the greatest thing in the world for Chelsea Clinton to find out that not only was her father an adulterer, he was also a liar. I was told by my therapist that the greatest legacy you can leave your children is the truth. If I end up being a murderer, robber or whatever. My son would know the truth from my own mouth first and not second hand. He deserves the right to make a decision and to hear it from me.
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Re: Boundaries that shouldn't be Crossed
Mar 17, 2008 11:43 AM
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>
> IMO, Emotionally speaking Paul's way too involved
> with his patients. Instead of FACING his own
> Childhood WOUNDS, he's living VICARIOUSLY
> through his patients ... keeps trying to FIX them ...
> instead of FIXING HIMSELF.
>
> His wife and kids suffer also as a result of this.
IMO, I agree with above, Two25. Why it's happened may be another matter.
Is it the old joke, "The shoemaker's kids go barefoot?"
My Dad was a plumber but none of the toilets ever worked properly in our house
Imagine our frustration??
>
>
> It's not Rosie's place to be a "Go Between" for her
> parents, anymore than she should be finding a job for
> her boyfriend Noah.
>
> Unless its an emergency situation of some kind, these
> kinds of BOUNDARY LINES (their sex lives) between
> parents and kids shouldn't be crossed.
>
IMO, this put's an undue burden on children.
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Re: Boundaries: With Children About Their Parents' Relationship?
Mar 17, 2008 11:34 AM
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>
> One difference in my view, which may be what you're
> picking up on, is my impression that Kate turned on
> Paul and stopped liking him for who he is, and for
> what in large part drew her to Paul in the first
> place.
That could very well be. That is a dynamic that I have seen in many relationships, including my own.
What drew you to the person in the first place, can, after time, annoy you and cause a rift in the relationship.
For example, Kate really liked that Paul tried to figure her out when they first met (ie, analyze). Now she sees his analysis of "everything" aggravating.
>
> I don't see that Paul turned on Kate in any way akin:
> that there's anything about Kate he stopped liking,
> , stopped accepting. Paul's reacted to her turning
> on him; and recently, fallen for Laura.
Maybe Kate viewed (ie, perceived) Paul's drifting away from her and their family as an "act". Who knows?
It would have been best if both parties spoke openly to each other about their feelings rather than allow them to go "adrift".
But then we wouldn't have conflict, and drama.
>
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