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When he knows she is a complete nut? Is this what men are attracted to??????
I know men are visual and yes, Laura is a very attractive woman but once a man knows that a woman is nuts doesn't that kill the attraction? Paul knows everything about Laura including how sick she is. How can he still want her?
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Mar 4, 2008 6:10 AM
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> Walkara and Doger used to post long and nice, was
> even inspirational many times.
That's an incredibly generous and kind thing to say, 4bee, especially in light of some of our history. I always enjoy reading you whether or not we agree.
--
"I believe in God's purpose. Not knowing it. I ask him, moving in me, to allow me to see his will. I ask him, moving in others, to allow them to see it."
Rev. Smith, Deadwood
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 4, 2008 2:40 AM
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>>>Because she doesn't know a lot of facts about his life? Why are those more important to "knowing someone" than the intimacy, rapport, understanding they've developed in therapy?
>On one hand, Laura seems to be a textbook case of erotic transference and obsession. Is that really love? I don't think so but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference when you're going through it.
Good points, Katie. If I'm reading you correctly, you don't mean (so much) that these would be more important outside the therapy context), but that in therapy they can set the stage for textbook eortic transference as you say.
I tend to agree with Laura and Paul that erotic transference can occur but a deeper, more profound and more grounded love might develop as well. I don't know that anyone including Paul and Laura themselves would dispute there's erotic transference. Just that that's not necessarily the whole story.
>A darker, more skeptical interpretation might be that her insight is a result of obsessing about him for a year... analyzing every word, every gesture, desperately searching for signs, any crumb or scrap, asking people about him, his family, watching his reactions to her various stories, some of which seem almost rehearsed, and designed to cast her in a certain light. Con artists and sociopaths excel at this, . . . .
Well, we haven't seen Laura do what Alex did, have we? Alex, if fact, mocked Laura and Paul to Paul because, in part, of how little concrete Laura knows about Paul.
I think there's much to indicate that at least much of Laura's insisght, probably almost all, does arise out of sessions, whatever one thinks of them. Including because we have witnessed Laura gain insight about Paul before our very eyes at a number of turns.
>I see Paul as quite different outside of the office, but perhaps Gina just brings out the worst in him.
I agree. Not just Gina, but Kate. Kate seems largely right that Paul is much better with his patients than with his family. On the other hand, I believe the Paul with his patients are very much genuine sides of him. And my opinion of Paul as a therapist is higher than many people's.
Kate complains about Paul shutting her out of his work, exalting his work, taking refuge in his work -- all of which seem largely true. Yet she complains too about him acting like a psychotherapist at home. How can this not be rejecting to Paul when that's what he is? Or a large part of what he is? Besides being somethng of a Catch 22? Or between a rock and a hard place?
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 4, 2008 12:21 AM
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I am glad that Paul did not act on his declaration of love for Laura. At least not in a sexual way. Because that would be same as what her father's friend did to Laura. Abuse of trust.
I'd stop watching the show then.
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 11:55 PM
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>>>Laura is a butter face, pure and simple. Great body, hideous face. The teeth look like the donkey Eddie Murphy played in "Shrek.
A bit harsh, innit? I think she's gorgeous.
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 10:02 PM
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Laura is a butter face, pure and simple. Great body, hideous face. The teeth look like the donkey Eddie Murphy played in "Shrek."
Last week, the show jumped the shark with Paul attacking Alex. Tonight, the shark swallowed the show and it has lost all credibility.
I won't be watching any more.
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 8:54 PM
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Overbite? That mouth has probably caused many a men to drift off to fantasy land.
Well she can certainly afford the Manolos.
I'm intrigued by Alex's perception of Paul. One man to another, "I'm on to you".
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 8:26 PM
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Many therapists are into rescue fantasies and let's face it..overbite and neediness aside, Laura has mesmerized Paul with her single minded pursuit of him and all of her drama. Paul seems to have a very strong need to "rescue" her. I wonder if her stilettos tonight will be Manolos. That'll show she means business...
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 8:21 PM
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> When he knows she is a complete nut? Is this what men
> are attracted to??????
>
> I know men are visual and yes, Laura is a very
> attractive woman but once a man knows that a woman is
> nuts doesn't that kill the attraction? Paul knows
> everything about Laura including how sick she is. How
> can he still want her?
Haven't read through the thread so excuse if this has been addressed. The man is 50 years old. He's learned a young woman is in love with him. His wife has been unfaithful because he's been lost in his work. Laura's young, sexy and knows exactly how to get to him.
Poor guy, he doesn't stand a chance. Those damn midlife crises. Buy the convertible, Paul, take your wife for a ride and if you can't make it work, at least be happy with Laura.
Unfortunately, he won't be.
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 8:10 PM
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>>>Because she doesn't know a lot of facts about his life? Why are those more important to "knowing someone" than the intimacy, rapport, understanding they've developed in therapy?
On one hand, Laura seems to be a textbook case of erotic transference and obsession. Is that really love? I don't think so but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference when you're going through it.
A darker, more skeptical interpretation might be that her insight is a result of obsessing about him for a year... analyzing every word, every gesture, desperately searching for signs, any crumb or scrap, asking people about him, his family, watching his reactions to her various stories, some of which seem almost rehearsed, and designed to cast her in a certain light. Con artists and sociopaths excel at this, but I doubt if the writers will go that route.
I see Paul as quite different outside of the office, but perhaps Gina just brings out the worst in him. 
>>>For me, the objective features of someone's physicality are not fixed in stone: if they have overwhelmingly unattractive qualities, their physicality becomes unattractive to me no matter what.
I know what you mean. After that first impression, a person can become quite unattractive to me. This is why I don't like knowing too much about for example, an actor's personal life. What a letdown to discover that they're dumber than a fence post or a wife-beating alcoholic. Really downgrades their appeal.
>>>The other way around too -- if someone's being is sexy and compelling, they become physically attractive to me.
Absolutely!
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 6:35 PM
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Because she's sexy
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 5:22 PM
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> I think some believe that Paul should know better, at
> his age, and in his profession. He takes everything
> she says at face value. Are psychologists more
> gullible than the average person, or does it just
> seem that way? He might even believe she loves him
> because he wants to believe, but truthfully, she
> hardly knows him.
Yes, I suppose you could say that I think he should know better, but really it's more like how could he not feel the manipulation? For me, that quality just plain makes her unattractive.
For me, the objective features of someone's physicality are not fixed in stone: if they have overwhelmingly unattractive qualities, their physicality becomes unattractive to me no matter what.
The other way around too -- if someone's being is sexy and compelling, they become physically attractive to me.
With Paul and Laura . . . well, I can of course see what she does to make him feel incredibly desired, and I understand how alluring that is. But I can't quite get how that is not overpowered by the qualities in her that for me are an utter turn off.
It's amazing how divided people are about this. On both sides people feel like the "truth" is soooo obvious.
Same with the Kate haters and lovers (or, at least understanders).
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 5:17 PM
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> >>>I can't fathom how anyone sees Paul sitting agog
> at Laura's sheer appearance with no rapport based on
> anything else.
>
> But isn't that rapport based mostly on their sexual
> attraction to each other?
I very much agree that their rapport and attraction are highly intertwined -- of a piece. I would say the same every time I've been sexually attracted.
> I think some believe that Paul should know better, at
> his age, and in his profession. He takes everything
> she says at face value.
I think he's been an effective therapist on any number of occasions in getting Laura to understand and acknowledge certain things she asserted intially were off -- beginning with its not being entirely Andrew who brought on the "ultimatum". To Laura's credit, she has shown herself to often be open to therapy and repeatedly does take responsibility -- sometimes off the bat; sometimes after Paul's effective work. Plus, Laura has repeatedly been vindicated/effective in showing that what Paul says shouldn't be taken at face value -- in effect, as she rightly claims, serving as something of his therapist.
>Are psychologists more
> gullible than the average person, or does it just
> seem that way? He might even believe she loves him
> because he wants to believe, but truthfully, she
> hardly knows him.
Because she doesn't know a lot of facts about his life? Why are those more important to "knowing someone" than the intimacy, rapport, understanding they've developed in therapy? To me, Laura has shown herself to be profoundly insightful about Paul. I see this as both reflecting and a basis for their rapport, and their mutual attraction.
> Some women enjoy the thrill of the chase, and I think
> Laura is one of them. I'm rooting for her because I
> want to see this play out, but I'm afraid the reality
> of Paul will quickly become tiresome.
I guess we'll see, and assess how realistic, how healthy we believe it to be. I'd be surprised if they end up with little bond, though how romantic ultimately it will remain . . . ? If Laura does pretty much lose romantic interest in Paul, I don't expect he'd continue to have romantic interest in her. But so long as she does, and very intensely, . . .
Is anyone romantic not thrilled with courtship, with getting more intimate with their beloved? When we see very romantic movies, how often do they start with a couple already happily together and remaining that way?
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 4:16 PM
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>>>I can't fathom how anyone sees Paul sitting agog at Laura's sheer appearance with no rapport based on anything else.
But isn't that rapport based mostly on their sexual attraction to each other?
I think some believe that Paul should know better, at his age, and in his profession. He takes everything she says at face value. Are psychologists more gullible than the average person, or does it just seem that way? He might even believe she loves him because he wants to believe, but truthfully, she hardly knows him.
Some women enjoy the thrill of the chase, and I think Laura is one of them. I'm rooting for her because I want to see this play out, but I'm afraid the reality of Paul will quickly become tiresome.
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 3:32 PM
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> When he knows she is a complete nut? Is this what men
> are attracted to??????
>
> I know men are visual and yes, Laura is a very
> attractive woman but once a man knows that a woman is
> nuts doesn't that kill the attraction? Paul knows
> everything about Laura including how sick she is. How
> can he still want her?
I haven't read the other responses. I'm puzzled seeing a number from other threads why many people regard Laura as so especially neurotic or especially unreliable in her accounts. Who are the well-adjusted truth-tellers on In Treatment?
To answer your question directly: once I have fallen for someone; no, illness does not kill the attraction. At least not illness that doesn't lead to cruelty, to turning on me, to devastating dishonesty.
Nor would I become attracted to anyone in the first place, however sane, based on sheer appearance.
Are you saying that women are incapable of loving someone ill?
As Kate said, being wanted/desired is itself a force to be reckoned with. This can go a long way. So too a woman (or a man) who feels herself to be attractive, sexy -- at least with a particular person.
Even if one thinks that Laura is especially ill, I'm bafflied if many people don't think she has powerfully engaging, appealing, admirable qualities. To me, Laura has many moments of incisive wit, candor, insight, concern, acceptance of responsibility.
I can't fathom how anyone sees Paul sitting agog at Laura's sheer appearance with no rapport based on anything else.
Moreover, Paul became a therapist, it seems, because he is driven to want to help neurotic people (including himself)find their was to happier, healthier places, as Laura herself impressively, appealingly elicited. He shouldn't have been treating her or his other patients, however ill, if he didn't think he could help them substantially. Or if this wasn't rewarding for him.
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Re: Someone Please Explain to Me How Paul Can Be Attracted To Laura????
Mar 3, 2008 12:21 PM
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>"Looks aren't everything. And if guys want this, then they deserve what they get."
>>>it goes so much deeper than that. Attraction isn't a choice. You can't "choose" to be attracted to somebody.
Tell me about it. I did the same thing Paul's about to do, so I can't say much. I wasn't married, but I left a good man and longterm relationship for a guy who was like the male equivalent of Laura. He was REALLY good looking and charismatic. Every woman he met thought so too, that was part of the problem. lol
After lusting for him so long and all this this buildup, our first night together should have given me a clue. It was over in like 10 seconds...and it got worse. After awhile I got up but had zero feeling in one of my legs. As soon as I stood up I went crashing to the floor like a felled redwood, face first. It was pretty embarrassing but later I couldn't help comparing our relationship to that night.
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