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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
A successful CEO who built a family-owned company from the ground up, Walter (played by John Mahoney) comes to see Paul at his wife's urging because he's been having trouble sleeping. He's in denial over several other deeper issues however, which come to the surface when his standard solutions to crises fail him.
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(110 of 140)
Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 19, 2009 12:38 PM
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> It does depend on the situation. If the person is
> a recluse and totally cut off from friends and
> family, that's one thing. But if the person has
> family and friends who love him/her, it's the
> ultimate in selfishness because it is done with
> absolutely no regard for those he/she is leaving
> behind. I couldn't imagine being a child and having
> to live with the fact that my mother (or father)
> preferred death to me. What a horrible load of
> baggage to carry around for the rest of one's
> life.
>
> Once again I have to disagree.......have you ever
> been at that abyss, where nothing matters anymore,
> everything is bleak, black, there is no joy, there is
> end to the depression, you can't get out of bed and
> yet you can't sleep or eat. When you do sleep, it's
> horrible nightmares. It's an effort to bathe
> yourself, to carry on a conversation with anyone,
> even the cashier in the supermarket?
>
> There comes a time when nothing matters but the end
> of the pain and the nothingness. There is also
> consideration of those left behind, but there is no
> life here for you anymore. Nothing. So, you pray that
> your survivors will forgive and understand.
>
> I have been there and I've lost people to suicide.
> It's a horrific act, but devoid of selfishness. If
> you were in their situation, you wouldn't judge them
> as harshly, I promise you.
I will co-sign on that. I had a cousin who took his own life 12 years ago, he was 20 years old. He was an only child, he's mother STILL deals with this and has never been the same since. She is a member of a support group, has had counseling, visits high schools to talk with teens abt suicide etc. She told me you never, ever get over it, you just learn to live with it. He came to visit me the day before he did it and I thought all was well, it wasn't. I still wonder what I could have done or if I could have done something.
Yes, that person is in some sort of mental and psychic pain but they are living in their own heads, they see things only from their perspective. Just like the Walter character, they are totally out of touch with how people feel abt them, that they will be missed, the amt of guilt that comes when you leave this world in THAT manner. The mental pain and anquish you leave with those you leave behind. In some ways it is selfish. Sorry, but it is.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 19, 2009 8:32 AM
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Walter broke my heart last nite......and I cried right along with him
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 19, 2009 8:31 AM
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It does depend on the situation. If the person is a recluse and totally cut off from friends and family, that's one thing. But if the person has family and friends who love him/her, it's the ultimate in selfishness because it is done with absolutely no regard for those he/she is leaving behind. I couldn't imagine being a child and having to live with the fact that my mother (or father) preferred death to me. What a horrible load of baggage to carry around for the rest of one's life.
Once again I have to disagree.......have you ever been at that abyss, where nothing matters anymore, everything is bleak, black, there is no joy, there is end to the depression, you can't get out of bed and yet you can't sleep or eat. When you do sleep, it's horrible nightmares. It's an effort to bathe yourself, to carry on a conversation with anyone, even the cashier in the supermarket?
There comes a time when nothing matters but the end of the pain and the nothingness. There is also consideration of those left behind, but there is no life here for you anymore. Nothing. So, you pray that your survivors will forgive and understand.
I have been there and I've lost people to suicide. It's a horrific act, but devoid of selfishness. If you were in their situation, you wouldn't judge them as harshly, I promise you.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 19, 2009 1:21 AM
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> I've never understood why some people say that
> suicide is selfish. Personally I think it's the
> height of selfishness to expect someone in that much
> pain to endure just because they can't deal
> with the aftermath.
It does depend on the situation. If the person is a recluse and totally cut off from friends and family, that's one thing. But if the person has family and friends who love him/her, it's the ultimate in selfishness because it is done with absolutely no regard for those he/she is leaving behind. I couldn't imagine being a child and having to live with the fact that my mother (or father) preferred death to me. What a horrible load of baggage to carry around for the rest of one's life.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 19, 2009 12:52 AM
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The Walter sessions have been my favorite sessions of weeks 5 and 6. Paul is doing great work with him. And, I'm finally understanding who Walter is. Watching Walter break down at the end of tonight's episode and Paul comfort him was very touching. I've seen the breakdown a couple of times and each time had to turn away from watching because it seems so real and personal. GB and John Mahoney are such great actors.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 16, 2009 2:54 PM
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IMO, only someone who hasn't been there, or witnessed that pain up close as I have in my profession, would call it "selfish"..
And you would know, you are a nurse and see so much of this.
The word selfish tied to this subject matter just makes me angry......I would never see it that way unless the threats were just to manipulate....I've seen too much shit myself.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 16, 2009 1:10 PM
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> I agree that it depends on the situation, and the
> person involved. My ex used suicide threats, and
> genuine attempts, as a form of emotional
> manipulation. I couldn't leave him and had to
> tolerate any behavior no matter how awful from him,
> or he would threaten and/or attempt to take his own
> life. That to me was pretty selfish. He wasn't
> depressed. He just wanted a license to do whatever he
> wished.
had an ex like that myself..
this behavior smacks of control..
and it works...as evidenced by the partners who stay because they fear that the threats could turn real...
this is vastly different from the person truly in the throes of depression and the real pain of same...
IMO, only someone who hasn't been there, or witnessed that pain up close as I have in my profession, would call it "selfish"..
--
♪music is a universal language♫
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 16, 2009 12:56 PM
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rubyjtcat, cases like the one you describe are heart wrenching. No rhyme or reason. How awful to suffer through what she did, not being able to find a way out. I don't think one can be called selfish when their pain overshadows everything else. Selfishness would be if they were aware that help was available and turned it away, if they knew that it could get better but didn't bother to try. Selfishness is about knowing you are being selfish and only thinking of yourself and your own needs. When one is in as much pain as this girl you talk about, there isn't the ability to even be aware of that. I am sorry for your friend.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 16, 2009 12:42 PM
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I think it depends on the situation. When you tell someone you want to kill yourself you are crying out for help. You get them doctors, therapy, medication and family to stand by you and get you through it but you choose to still kill yourself I think that is selfish.
Once again, I respectfully disagree. A friends daughter was bi polar, tried all kinds of meds for years, suffered terribly, but nothing helped. Last year, she jumped in front of a subway train. There was no selfishness here; just desperation
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 16, 2009 12:35 PM
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I agree that it depends on the situation, and the person involved. My ex used suicide threats, and genuine attempts, as a form of emotional manipulation. I couldn't leave him and had to tolerate any behavior no matter how awful from him, or he would threaten and/or attempt to take his own life. That to me was pretty selfish. He wasn't depressed. He just wanted a license to do whatever he wished.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 16, 2009 11:59 AM
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> I've never understood why some people say that
> suicide is selfish. Personally I think it's the
> height of selfishness to expect someone in that much
> pain to endure just because they can't deal with the
> aftermath.
>
> Ditto Katie.......absolutely
I think it depends on the situation. When you tell someone you want to kill yourself you are crying out for help. You get them doctors, therapy, medication and family to stand by you and get you through it but you choose to still kill yourself I think that is selfish.
If you are so depressed, tell no one and don't get any help and take your life I don't think that is selfish. You don't know of any other way and can't think beyond not living.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 15, 2009 1:26 PM
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I've never understood why some people say that suicide is selfish. Personally I think it's the height of selfishness to expect someone in that much pain to endure just because they can't deal with the aftermath.
Ditto Katie.......absolutely
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 14, 2009 5:50 PM
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I've never understood why some people say that suicide is selfish. Personally I think it's the height of selfishness to expect someone in that much pain to endure just because they can't deal with the aftermath.
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 14, 2009 5:09 PM
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Also speaking from personal experience, suicide is the only viable solution.......the only way out. Thought is given to the survivors, but for them, this is their only option.....
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Re: Meet the New Patients: Walter
May 14, 2009 11:50 AM
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> I wonder if people who consider suicide as a way out,
> really ever consider the people they leave behind.
> I'm not speaking of people who have some form of
> f psychosis but those who suffer depression, etc.
> I've known a couple of people who have had immediate
> family member's take their own lives and they NEVER
> get over it or feel like they are better off
> (Walter's take on his own suicide, if he were
> successful in doing it.) If they are lucky, they
> find a way to live with it but they never feel they
> are better off because of it.
From a personal family experience the person that committed suicide thought the family would be better off without him. He would be able to provide better if gone (he left a note). He really had no clue what it would do to the rest of the lives of the family and that their life would be changed forever as well.
I see a lot of him in Walter. What is he if he can't work with "Company A" and be "this" person. That seems to be very hard for men especially over 50.
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