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Many posters vehemently despise this character, yet some defend her, so I'd like to invite the anti-Kate posters to submit legitimate evidence to show why we should want her our of Paul's life for good.
In Laura-week 7 we learn that
A) Rosie called Kate while Kate was in Rome (which cell phone provider was that with international service ?) and overheard her lover in the background. Kate told Paul at the end of the Alex week 5 episode that she and her lover stayed in separate rooms since the first night. Interesting how the lover ordered room service for her and just happened to be in her separate room... I submit she lied to both Paul and probably to her daughter Rosie as to her whereabouts and company on that and other nights in Rome.
B) Ian is not told that Kate had an affair, only that Paul has developed feelings for another woman and that he and Kate are trying to "work through" it. Ian sides with Paul and starts to badmouth Kate, sympathizing how Paul might have gotten tired of her nagging and baleful glances and calls her a martyr. Paul defends Kate and demands that Ian show her some respect, in light of all she's done for him growing up. - I submit that Ian and Kate are not terribly close and that if Kate has in fact done all these wonderful things for Ian, yet Ian feels no outrage at his father's betrayal of her, Kate must not have given Ian the nurturance/connectedness or respect for women that she should have, particularly since Ian tends to tire of his girlfriends after three months. I really think Ms. Kate screwed up with this kid.
C) Kate runs a shelter for battered women, yet still has time to catch Laura wearing stiletto heels at 10am during the workweek, meet other men, fly to Rome for a week, and come running during the afternoon when Paul's bathroom is stopped up. How much time and hard work is she putting into this position ?
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(53 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 12:17 PM
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Don't have a Top Ten but DO have a Clinton joke:
Bill and Hillary decide to capture the Midwestern vote.
They visit a quiet, Midwestern small town and pick-up a Labrador from the local pound so they can capture the people's hearts.
They enter the bar, order a coupla drinks and the Lab sits down beside them.
Pretty soon, a farmer walks in, lifts up the dogs tail, looks at its behind, drops the tail, shakes his head and leaves the bar.
This action is repeated many times over the next hour, yet no one speaks to Bill and Hillary.
Finally, Hillary's curiosity is piqued.
She asks the next farmer looking at the dog's butt to explain what is going on.
The farmer replies: We heard there was a dog in the bar with two assholes so we came over to have a look!!!
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(52 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 12:10 PM
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> HEY 1974: We need you in the other thread, we are
> doing TOP TEN on the YOU KNOW YOU MAY BE WATCHING TOO
> MUCH IN TREATMENT.....
I'll be right over - been working TOO much. I'm losing my sense of humor and perspective.
I NEED A LAUGH!!!
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(51 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 11:35 AM
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HEY 1974: We need you in the other thread, we are doing TOP TEN on the YOU KNOW YOU MAY BE WATCHING TOO MUCH IN TREATMENT.....
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(50 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 11:33 AM
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> > > I absolutely dislike Kate. Everything is
> all
> > Paul's
> > > fault, in her opinion.
> > >
> > > She no longer 'needs' Paul and feels
> neglected.
> > She
> > > is an unhappy whiny woman.
> > >
> > > And I am a woman who as been married.
> Whining
> > is a
> > > deal breaker.
> >
> > I agree. I hate her character too. Given a
> warm,
> > thoughtful, sensitive Paul's character, a
> viewer
> > can't help but ask what did paul ever see in
> her?
> >
> > But perhaps it's just terrible acting.
>
> Perhaps it is good acting to arouse such
> feelings...
What up 1974?????
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(49 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 11:18 AM
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> > I absolutely dislike Kate. Everything is all
> Paul's
> > fault, in her opinion.
> >
> > She no longer 'needs' Paul and feels neglected.
> She
> > is an unhappy whiny woman.
> >
> > And I am a woman who as been married. Whining
> is a
> > deal breaker.
>
> I agree. I hate her character too. Given a warm,
> thoughtful, sensitive Paul's character, a viewer
> can't help but ask what did paul ever see in her?
>
> But perhaps it's just terrible acting.
Perhaps it is good acting to arouse such feelings...
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 10:36 AM
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> >Agreed, there are so many shades of gray, and the
> characters are so dimensional that my opinion changes
> all the time. I think the writers and actors are
> doing an excellent job of showing how, when a
> marriage breaks down, it's often not one, but several
> contributing factors.
>
> Yes. And most every character is moving, developing.
>
>
> At the same time, I haven't suspended all judgment of
> all aspects of every character; even less about
> particular conduct -- stuff a given character has
> done/not done, said/not said. We've seen any number
> of incidents of deception and self-delusion, for
> example. We have seen a lot, even though there's
> much we haven't seen, have yet to see.
Although there is much we haven't seen of their 23 year marriage, and Paul is not entirely blameless for the breakdown of their marriage, I have yet to see how verbally attacking your spouse or having an affair helps to smooth things over.
It's interesting that it was Kate's idea to accompany Paul on his visits to Gina, yet she has yet to show much willingness to reconcile. "I don't need him" really doesn't move a couple toward togetherness. There seems to be a disconnect between her actions and words.
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 13, 2008 4:41 AM
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>Agreed, there are so many shades of gray, and the characters are so dimensional that my opinion changes all the time. I think the writers and actors are doing an excellent job of showing how, when a marriage breaks down, it's often not one, but several contributing factors.
Yes. And most every character is moving, developing.
At the same time, I haven't suspended all judgment of all aspects of every character; even less about particular conduct -- stuff a given character has done/not done, said/not said. We've seen any number of incidents of deception and self-delusion, for example. We have seen a lot, even though there's much we haven't seen, have yet to see.
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 12, 2008 8:35 PM
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>>>Although I've participated enthusiastically in this thread, I'm not looking to indict anyone per se. I find In Treatment plenty rich and complex enough, including its characters, to critique some aspects of Kate, Paul, and others, some of each character's behavior, without absolutely condemning any of them; without choosing necessarily between characters whole hog; without also finding things to admire, like, symptathize, empathize, or at least somewhat agree with in each character.
Agreed, there are so many shades of gray, and the characters are so dimensional that my opinion changes all the time. I think the writers and actors are doing an excellent job of showing how, when a marriage breaks down, it's often not one, but several contributing factors.
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 12, 2008 6:52 PM
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> I absolutely dislike Kate. Everything is all Paul's
> fault, in her opinion.
>
> She no longer 'needs' Paul and feels neglected. She
> is an unhappy whiny woman.
>
> And I am a woman who as been married. Whining is a
> deal breaker.
I agree. I hate her character too. Given a warm, thoughtful, sensitive Paul's character, a viewer can't help but ask what did paul ever see in her?
But perhaps it's just terrible acting.
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 12, 2008 3:56 AM
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> You can't indict Kate without also bringing charges
> against Paul.
Katie, I appreciated much of your analysis as well. I agree in particular we likely haven't been seeing the best of Kate, by and large, and this is hardly her fault alone.
Although I've participated enthusiastically in this thread, I'm not looking to indict anyone per se. I find In Treatment plenty rich and complex enough, including its characters, to critique some aspects of Kate, Paul, and others, some of each character's behavior, without absolutely condemning any of them; without choosing necessarily between characters whole hog; without also finding things to admire, like, symptathize, empathize, or at least somewhat agree with in each character.
As you say, there's much we haven't seen. I eagerly anticipate learning more as the episodes air, and seeing more play out.
I expect I'll come to see some things differently in retrospect, as I already have with much on In Treatment. Nonetheless, there are some exchanges, some things we've seen about different characters, good and bad, where I believe we are in a position to form a fair assessment. About that particular person; about that particular conduct.
Mitigating circumstances are just that. What happened is still wrong but more understandable, the person more sympathetic, or less unsympathetic. I expect to see more mitigating circumstances on any number of things with any number of characters. But these aren't going to change much of what we've witnessed -- particulars and more.
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(43 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 12, 2008 1:51 AM
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> This is easy from the jury box, where our own lives
> aren't under a microscope, but....
>
> After the episode where Kate told Paul about her
> affair I didn't like her either. I believe she has
> probably changed more than Paul in the marriage. She
> should have told him how unhappy she was, and perhaps
> tried counseling. If that didn't improve things,
> then leave or divorce. The worst thing to do is drag
> a third person into the mess.
>
> Mitigating circumstances which changed my opinion of
> Kate:
>
> We're seeing her at a very unhappy point in her life.
> Her husband abandoned her a year ago, at least
> mentally. He nurtures, cares for and talks to
> patients all day, some whom he claims not to like,
> yet never talks to Kate. She's a vibrant, attractive
> woman but he's taken her for granted.
> So, she had an affair with some guy who thinks she's
> a 'babe', partly I believe to wake Paul up, to make
> him jealous.
>
> When Paul told Gina he "thought about sex all the
> time", I believe he was thinking about sex with
> Laura, although he didn't specify.
>
> My verdict:
>
> You can't indict Kate without also bringing charges
> against Paul.
Very good analysis.
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 11, 2008 11:22 PM
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This is easy from the jury box, where our own lives aren't under a microscope, but....
After the episode where Kate told Paul about her affair I didn't like her either. I believe she has probably changed more than Paul in the marriage. She should have told him how unhappy she was, and perhaps tried counseling. If that didn't improve things, then leave or divorce. The worst thing to do is drag a third person into the mess.
Mitigating circumstances which changed my opinion of Kate:
We're seeing her at a very unhappy point in her life. Her husband abandoned her a year ago, at least mentally. He nurtures, cares for and talks to patients all day, some whom he claims not to like, yet never talks to Kate. She's a vibrant, attractive woman but he's taken her for granted.
So, she had an affair with some guy who thinks she's a 'babe', partly I believe to wake Paul up, to make him jealous.
When Paul told Gina he "thought about sex all the time", I believe he was thinking about sex with Laura, although he didn't specify.
My verdict:
You can't indict Kate without also bringing charges against Paul.
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(41 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 11, 2008 9:19 PM
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I think Kate is just an unhappy jerk and wants to put it all on Paul.. I think Paul was being a good parent and a good person to talk the "hit" with Ian and not just spill the beans on the skank Kate.
About.. Gina... I think deep down she either has a thing for Paul... or dislikes him and wants him .. either way.. I don't think she is doing whats best for him.
--
Julie
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(40 of 173)
Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 11, 2008 8:02 PM
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> > One thing that gives me pause is that Kate
> insists
> > the children have been invisible to Paul as
> well, and
> > I believe we have seen a number of her
> complaints
> > (not all) about Paul's parenting versus her own
> as
> > somewhat off or unfair or both.
>
> One other example: Whatever one thinks of Paul for
> wanting to reschedule the conference with Max's
> teachers from Monday so Paul could keep his session
> with Laura, it's laughable for Kate to be incensed at
> this when she couldn't attend because she was
> off with Rome with the guy who disgusted Rosie.
>
> Has Gina called Kate on any of this hypocricy?
LOL I was going to point this out, but I thought I'd better check to see if anyone else had mentioned this little nugget. I laughed out loud when Kate berated Paul for rescheduling Max's parent/teacher (or whatever kind) meeting while *she* was off in Rome! Earth to Kate!! Anyone home in there? Too priceless! And I'm surprised that Gina hasn't pointed out their individual "inconsistencies." (Not that she's had much time to speak when they're in session). LOL
Nightwind
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Re: The Case against Kate
Mar 11, 2008 3:59 PM
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> Not enough evidence, "if the glove does not fit, you
> must equit"
>
> BTW: Kate you have money, therefore there is no need
> to work! Get a hobby, start scrap booking all your
> regrets in life!
The evidence seems to be rolling in quite steadily, actually. In Paul & Gina -week 6, when Gina asked them whether or not the children were aware of their troubles, instead of answering Gina's question Kate said "We've gotten pretty good at pretending" with something like pride, which indicates a certain practice/comfort with deceiving...
BTW:Wouldn't mind if Kate went to Pago Pago permanently and took up scrapbooking.
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