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This topic has been archived - replies are not allowed.
To me two of the biggest themes of this show shown though in the finale.
1) The king stays the king. The king might take a few hits, but he never falls. Avon, marlo, Levy, Carcetti. The list goes on.
2)Everyone only cares about their selves. How can they advance their career, succed. I cannot think of one person who at some point on this show did not do this. Including, Marlo< levy, pearlman, Carcetti, Mcnulty, Kima, etc.
the most fitting line was when Jimmy said is Kima felt it needed doing then she did the right thing. He understood how the game is played, he accepted that.
Perlman could have tried the case, but she didn't want to risk her career.
If you think someone doesn't show this quality i would love to hear.
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(24 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 8:07 PM
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> i think we saying the same thing.
>
>
> I never said people can't change, Carver has daniels
> had. Daniels broke, he couldn't play the game, his
> wife plays is, zPearlman plays it. The people that
> play the game and act selfish have succed. Some who
> don't succed, while most fail or passed by.
See I think you missed the point on Daniels or maybe I am , he didn't break but what he did get was an awakening. He finally understood what McNulty was doing always going against the grain and made his stand when he said he would no longer juke the stats. He wanted the police to be police just like McNulty did and make a change for the better.
So him resigning and becoming a defense lawyer (at least that's what it looked like) was his way to make the changes he could , what he couldn't do being police and juking stats. He wanted to make a difference is my opinion.
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"Boy you got me confused with a man repeats himself."
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Edited by wicked90 at 03/10/2008 5:07 PM
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(23 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 6:03 PM
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My two cents
THE PRINCIPLES:
A tendency to be a good person is probably randomly distributed in the world around us. So most are average, some are way below average and some are way above. A couple of things change that with people who hold power:
1. People attracted to power are not usually the best people in the world.
2. Power changes people-Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men.(Lord Acton)
THE INDIVIDUALS-my view
Pearlman-The classic Machiavellian manipulator. They are amoral (neither moral or immoral). Frequently, smart and very analytic. They characteristically do well in large organizations
Narese-Portrayed as a greedy for power
Carcetti-Well meaning initially. Increasingly seduced and corrupted by power.
Remember your lists selects the corrupt. It excludes the less corrupt-Delegate Watkins and Norman,
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(22 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 3:09 PM
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i respect your point on danils, But what are your thoughts on carcetti and Pearlman, Narese and others who play the game to their benefit.
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(21 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 3:06 PM
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Daniels, couldn't play the game anymore thats it. He did choose, he quit becuase he didn't want to play the game.
He was content with his decision.
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(20 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 2:29 PM
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Your "we" should not include me.
Daniels opted out for two reasons.
He chose not to be pimped by Narese or anyone else and he decided to take a hit rather than pass it on to his girlfriend and ex. I tend to view that as a choice rather than a failure. The fact that you view it as a failure, to me, suggests that you, personally, view that type of act with skepticism. That is your prerogative. Others may see it differently.
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Edited by motep at 03/10/2008 11:30 AM
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(19 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:48 PM
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i think we saying the same thing.
I never said people can't change, Carver has daniels had. Daniels broke, he couldn't play the game, his wife plays is, zPearlman plays it. The people that play the game and act selfish have succed. Some who don't succed, while most fail or passed by.
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(18 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:29 PM
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"those who acted corrupt and selfish, all ended up on top, Pearlman, Levy, Marlo, Carcetti. thats the world we live in." If that is how you see it, so be it.
I would suggest that although there are elements of truth in what you say, that things are a little more complicated. I would also suggest that the point you make may not exactly be the authors' point.
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1/19/08
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(17 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:25 PM
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Mjdolloff - something you NEED to understand is that EVERYONE acts selfish at some point in life. EVERYONE. From self-preservation to who gets the bigger pizza slice - there is at least 1 act of selfishness that everyone commits.
The motive for selfishness is key factor. A person who is immutably selfish is what The Wire is critical of and illustrates as being unfair yet a reflective paradigm of real life. The Carcettis, the Davises, the Campbells, the Stanfields, the Burrells, the Rawls, etc.
Prez and Carver did not act selfish because they were. They acted selfish out of not knowing better. Once both learned better, they didnt act selfish. There's a difference between that and being selfish. You can't ever not act selfishly at some point in your life.
I'll also throw Chris (even Snoop) in there. They were good soldiers and loyal. Bey and Monk too.
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(16 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:08 PM
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those who acted corrupt and selfish, all ended up on top, Pearlman, Levy, Marlo, Carcetti. thats the world we live in.
the 'good' people rarely end up on top
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(15 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:06 PM
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1) Urban life is a cycle that will never end. You will always have the "good police" (Mcnulty->Sydnor), the drug kingpins (Avon->Marlo->Slim), the fiends (Bubbles->Dukie), the corrupt people profiting from the streets (Levy, Herc), etc The roles are always the same, its just different (but ultimately similar) people replace each-other.
2) Reform and change in the system is not accepted. People who attempt to bring about change in their circle are shutdown one way or another. Examples: Stringer, Bunny, Gus, Daniels...
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(14 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:03 PM
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I just see many more people acting selfishly than acting correctly.
Even the people who makes morally sound decsions, they are flawed or have flaweed pasts. this show show us no one is perfect.
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(13 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 1:00 PM
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"my point was at some point in this show, almost every character displayed these selfish actions."
If that was your point, it seems to me that you missed the point that was being made by The Wire. That point is that people who act only for themselves without regard for others have a negative impact. This can been seen when they are compared to those who act out of real concern or commitment to others. That does not contradict the fact everyone has to take care of themselves.
If The king stays the king means that people with power use their power to stay in power, I would agree that The Wire points that out. I think is is also clear that while the authors acknowledge this as a fact of life, they seem critical of this.
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Edited by motep at 03/10/2008 10:03 AM
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(12 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 12:08 PM
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I should have mad eit more clear, my point was at some point in this show, almost every character displayed these selfish actions. and Cyrpt stated daniels, Carver have changed.
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(11 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 12:02 PM
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good post cryptblade. Carver wasn't selfish, not at all. You can argue that he was in S1, serving as Burrell's rat at the expense of his co-workers. But his character said it best - "He's the Deputy F'n Ops, what was I supposed to do?"
For the most part (save for he and Herc pocketing some drug money during the S1 raid), Carver's flaws came when he was doing the job. All he knew was what he was taught, and prior to his sit down w/ Colvin, he thought he was doing actual police work.
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(10 of 24)
Mar 10, 2008 12:02 PM
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Prez found himself, but he also blinded a kid and killed a fellow officer. he had to change.
i never said people can't change, i just said a major theme is people act selfish. they want to prosper, they don't do the marally right thing.
the other theme the king stays the king is true, from the developer, to carcetti to marlo to avon to levy.
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