|
|
O.K., it's the dead of winter,everyone is strung out waiting for Albrecht to get a sign from heaven, tempers grow short, and we are all losing our focus. What's needed is a good shot of Wire watching! S1/S2 are now out on dvd, and a lot of you have taped the show so it's possible for us to watch the first 25 episodes together again, and then chat it up here. The idea is simple: Two nights a week on the schedule below, we all watch the episode, starting with S1/E1 and then discuss it that night or the next day. The balance of the week is for ongoing discussion, and will allow those with schedule conflicts to catch up. For those without video, we will post episode summaries ahead of time so you can join in. Granted, the element of speculation about upcoming shows is lost,but even there it might be fun to ponder missed opportunities and alternate plot arcs. This little journey will get us past winter, and into spring, when we all need to shed that 'Television Tan', and get outdoors. So here we go; Stringer, D'Angelo, Wallace and Sobotka are all alive again. Avon is out of jail, and the detail is yet to meet. join us for a Wire marathon! SCHEDULE The First Season Mon. Feb 14 - episode 1 "The Target" Wed. Feb 16 - episode 2 "The Detail" Mon. Feb.21 - episode 3 "The Buys" Wed. Feb.23 - episode 4 "Old Cases" Mon. Feb 28 - episode 5 "The Pager" Wed. Mar. 2 - episode 6 "The Wire" Mon. Mar. 7 - episode 7 "One Arrest" Wed. Mar. 9 - episode 8 "Lessons" Mon. Mar.14 - episode 9 "Game Day" Wed. mar.16 - episode 10 "The Cost" Mon. Mar. 21- episode 11 "The Hunt" Wed. Mar. 23- episode 12 "Cleaning up Mon. mar. 28- episode 13 "Sentencing" The Second Season Wed. Mar. 30 - episode 1 "Ebb Tide" Mon. Apr. 4 - episode 2 " Collateral Damage" Wed. Apr. 6 - episode 3 "Hot Shots" Mon. Apr. 11 - episode 4 "Hard Cases" Wed. Apr. 13 - episode 5 "Undertow" Mon. Apr. 18 - episode 6 "All Prologue" Wed. Apr. 20 - episode 7 "Backwash" Mon. Apr. 25 - episode 8 "Duck and cover" Wed. Apr. 27 - episode 9 "Stray Rounds" Mon. May 2 - episode 10 "Storm Warnings" Wed. May 4 - episode 11 "Bad Dreams" Mon. May 9 - episode 12 "Port in a Storm" ( this thread is brought to you by BorninDempsy and donincincy: a wholly owned subsidiary of B and B enterprises.  )
|
Posts:
2,280
Registered:
12/29/04
|
|
(23188 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 11, 2008 11:54 PM
|
P.S. Welcome back to the campfire Lu. You too, G. We kinda missed you.
always here don, i check in at least once a day unless i'm out of town, which is rare
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23187 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 11, 2008 4:54 PM
|
> > disagree don, i think chad coleman nailed it, i
>> knew
> > an ex-con once, and after being out of >>society
>> for a
> > long stretch of time, there is a certain out
>> sequence
> > characteristic about them, when you are >>around
> >them,
> > you always have that "what is wrong with >>this
> > picture" thought in your head. i have that >>same
> > feeling when i see cutty... that ex-con that i
> > knew,was my boss at this job i had, i knew >>there
>> was
> > something wrong about him, but nobody >>knew about
>> his
> > past until he was arrested for embezzling >>this
> > company i worked for
> I think this is true too. I recently met and ex >(now
> current) con. He'd spent 15 years in prison. He >is
> a murderer. There was something cold and >detached
> about him, but a general calm to his demeanor >that
> put me at a little unease.
On balance I have to agree with both of you. My initial reaction to the character of Cutty was just that; an initial reaction. Since then I've spoken to several people who have known long term ex-cons and their stories match up. Usually overly polite, somewhat apprehensive and sometimes confused about how things in the world outside work now.
It's not hard to understand, really. Think how much your world has changed in 14 years. Cell phones -if there were any- were the size of milk cartons, Whole neighborhoods are gone, and the world economy has shifted to Asia. In retrospect I can't believe I missed this dimension regarding Cutty so completely until now.
But with that said I still have problems with Chad Coleman's acting style. It doesn't ring bells for me the way that, say, Avon, or Marlo or Bunk or Omar do. But then that's just me.
Keep in mind that most of the problems we might have with The Wire are of the nit-picky kind. Compared to standard TV fare Coleman is emmy material.
P.S. Welcome back to the campfire Lu. You too, G. We kinda missed you.
|
|
|
Posts:
11,998
Registered:
8/1/05
|
|
(23186 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 11, 2008 3:19 PM
|
> disagree don, i think chad coleman nailed it, i knew
> an ex-con once, and after being out of society for a
> long stretch of time, there is a certain out sequence
> characteristic about them, when you are around them,
> you always have that "what is wrong with this
> picture" thought in your head. i have that same
> feeling when i see cutty... that ex-con that i
> knew,was my boss at this job i had, i knew there was
> something wrong about him, but nobody knew about his
> past until he was arrested for embezzling this
> company i worked for
I think this is true too. I recently met and ex (now current) con. He'd spent 15 years in prison. He is a murderer. There was something cold and detached about him, but a general calm to his demeanor that put me at a little unease.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,280
Registered:
12/29/04
|
|
(23185 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 11, 2008 3:02 PM
|
|
disagree don, i think chad coleman nailed it, i knew an ex-con once, and after being out of society for a long stretch of time, there is a certain out sequence characteristic about them, when you are around them, you always have that "what is wrong with this picture" thought in your head. i have that same feeling when i see cutty... that ex-con that i knew,was my boss at this job i had, i knew there was something wrong about him, but nobody knew about his past until he was arrested for embezzling this company i worked for
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23184 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 10, 2008 11:52 AM
|
Cutty:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Cutty is one of my least favorite characters in the series. Since, for many, he is their most favorite character I owe an explanation.
It wasn't until this third (or forth) viewing of The Wire that I began to warm up to his character. (maybe it was the Dr. Scholls 'are you gellin?' commercials that poisoned my mind toward Chad Coleman -god knows they were that bad!)
Or maybe it was the fact that he seemed just too....well, too nice. A little too good to be true. I'm not really giving away any future plot arcs to say that I liked him best when he slapped the hopper's girlfriend. Not for the slap itself, but because it showed the other side of his personality; that he could be a mean guy when the occasion called for it. That he wasn't just a goody-two-shoes all the time.
Or maybe it was the way he delivered his lines; as if he was listening to some far off beautiful music while he spoke. (or had just been hit on the base of the skull with a rubber mallet.) For me they lacked conviction.
At any rate I began to see him differently this time around. For me now, he's a decent guy who made some bad choices in the past and has paid for them. I just wish they would have given him a little bit more of a dark side. To me that would have humanized him more. And that he would put a little more oomph in his delivery.
How's that for straddling the fence, gang?
(I'm beginning to sound like a politician who feels strongly both ways. Oh yuk!)
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23183 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 10, 2008 11:23 AM
|
> Yes, you're right but I don't think he is a guy who
> will really go to bat for someone.
Oh I don't know, T. He went to bat (in his own crude, but effective way) to get McNulty back in S1 and when Santeangelo thought that Madam LaRue, the psychic had helped him solve a murder (again S1) it was Landsman who said, "Fuck Madame LaRue, it was these two guys (McNulty and Bunk) who helped you out." Notice too that he was bringing those two a cup of coffee at the time. A small gesture, to be sure, but one indicating his respect for them and their work.
Now, that said, I think you are right that he will not saw a limb off behind him for anyone. As I said originally Landsman is a survivor. Which means that he will do what he can, but not dive off the high board i.e. shitcan his career, on principle like McNulty does on an almost daily basis.
Let's face it; how far would most people go if it meant their job? Jaybird tries to be helpful whenever he can, but practices that well known technique: CYA. Is it better to be a live coward than a dead hero? Each of us has to answer that one for ourselves. But let me suggest two things: first, the live coward lives on to fight again (however weakly) and secondly, only the dead know if it was worth it since only they -not we- have had the experience to make that call.
> Plus, he's a slob when he
> eats. I know that is petty but he's gross!
I can't even begin to defend him on that one: Guilty as charged!
Okay, I've probably gone on too long about our portly Sergeant, so let me end my defense of him with the one arrow in my quiver which makes Jay Landsman a guy I like: He has a huge sense of humor. It's all too true that he was stuffing a sandwich in his mouth as he went to Santangelo's cubicle with the Madam LaRue joke, but watching him two-step and sing "She's a..Gypppsssy Woooman" as he did it was more than worth the crumbs on the chin.
End of rant.
|
|
|
Posts:
235
Registered:
11/11/07
|
|
(23182 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 9, 2008 12:24 PM
|
> > Dante seems like his is dead weight, pardon the
> >pun,
> > and I think Kimmie knows it. Kimmie is
> strictly
> > about the payoff
>
> Omar's opinion of Dante changes slowly as the season
> goes on. I don't want to say anymore, but will bring
> it up when the time is right.
>
>
> >..and so is Omar but he has a >little
> > personal issue of vengeance going on too.
>
> This is Omar's one weakness, his desire for immediate
> vengeance. Had he chosen instead to bide his time and
> follow Tosha's advice about robbing other dealers for
> a while she might still be alive.
>
>
> > Also this is where I start really paying
> attention >to
> > the Carver character too. He begins to see his
> >job
> > differently, I think, as a result of Colvin. I
> think
> > Colvin is more of a teacher to those under him,
> I
> > mean to those who want to learn.
>
> Agreed. Carver seems to progress slowly but surely
> over the seasons. Herc, if anything, goes backwards,
> or, at the very least stands still.
>
> >Landsman, he knows
> > the game and how to play it but there isn't that
> >much
> > depth to him at all. He has his moments but
> >they are
> > moments none the less.
>
> I had to think about this one for a minute because I
> like Jay Landsman. His sense of humor, like Bunk's,
> can go off the chart.
>
> Okay, here is my take for what it's worth:
>
> Landsman is a survivor. Basically I think he is good
> police. (He did a first rate job at the crime scene
> when Kima got shot, for example.)
> But he has two problems. Three, actually: First he
> e is only a sergeant so he lacks the authority of an
> officer, but still has the responsibility for getting
> people to work together and get things done within
> The Homicide Unit. Often this means issuing orders
> from the top brass which he knows to be stupid, but
> must be obeyed to keep his head on his sholders. This
> takes the combined talents of a jokester, a buffoon,
> a smart administrator, a confessor, and a politician.
> He does them all pretty well, I think.
> Secondly, he is mostly in house now and his street
> smarts have probably tarnished more than a little,
> but he works with some pretty savvy detectives.
> Thirdly, and most importantly he must still be sharp
> enough to mediate between his boss, Bill Rawls, and
> the rank and file detectives, so that A) they don't
> all quit and B) that Rawls is generally kept happy,
> or satisfied, or whatever state he is in when he's
> not out for everyone's blood. Overall my feeling is
> that he is a pretty sharp cookie who works hard to
> come off as a happy-go-lucky type while struggling
> mightily to keep things from blowing up. IMO that
> takes a man with some real depth.
Yes, you're right but I don't think he is a guy who will really go to bat for someone. He keeps the wolf away (Rawls) to a degree, but don't if it really gets thick dont expect much. Plus, he's a slob when he eats. I know that is petty but he's gross!
>
> > Now that I think about it, I think Season 3 is
> my
> > favorite of all the Seasons. It moves slow in
> the
> > beginning but when it kicks in it really kicks
> in.
>
> Amen! I still like S1 the best, mostly because it was
> such ground breaking work at the time, but S3 sure
> gives it a run for it's money.
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23181 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 9, 2008 10:57 AM
|
A few more from S3/E28:
Bunk to Vernon Holley: "Motherfucker, do I look like George Washington Carver to you?"
McNulty, ever the good detective, pretty much determines within a minute that D'Angelo did NOT commit suicide. Whatever his personal reasons are for needing to excel, excel he does.
Which leads me to a strange paradox: Rawls is adamant that Jimmy will no longer work in the Homicide Unit -and we have Jay Landsman words to Rawls in S1 that McNulty lead the dept. in clearances. Yet by getting rid of him over personal pique brings Rawl's clearance rate way down. A real catch 22 for the Deputy Ops.
Poor Major Marvin Taylor bites the dust in Comstat but makes SimCo's case for legalization: "They're going to sell their drugs somewhere." All that gold braid in the room cannot stop the drug trade.
Bodie shows us in this ep what being a corner chief, and thus being on the front lines, can teach someone like him, but escape Stringer and Prop Joe:
Bodie: "Marlo is a problem, String." Those five words hold a lot more meaning then even Preston Brodas realizes.
Carcetti smoothing his hair in the mirror while having sex is close to the same gesture in the movie Bugsy where Warren Beatty does the same thing while beating someone. (I know, I know, I need to get a life.)
Which leads me to a movie cliche which even The Wire's production staff cannot resist: The person at the washbowl splashing cold water on their face and then looking up at their image in the mirror. Remember, Frank Sobotka did it in S2 in the bar when he finds out the 14 dead girls were murdered? I don't know why this just came to me. Maybe the mention of the mirror above. Happily they have avoided that other movie cliche: The two action leads running toward the camera and diving for cover as a big explosion goes off in the background.
(Just a movie addict, I suppose.)
Oh, and here's one that goes back to S2 as well. Sometime back someone mentioned the absence of automatic weapons in The Wire. Not so. Eton and Serge had Uzzi''s when they went to bargin with Cheese over Ziggy's problems.
(Just a Wire addict, I suppose.)
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23180 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 9, 2008 10:18 AM
|
> landsman's send off also made sly references to
> robert colesberry's film accomplishments (mississippi
> burning for one)
On the commentary track David Simon names about five or six of them.
If anyone without the DVD (or the time) I'll look them up and post them here at your request.
|
|
|
Posts:
2,280
Registered:
12/29/04
|
|
(23179 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 8, 2008 11:19 PM
|
|
landsman's send off also made sly references to robert colesberry's film accomplishments (mississippi burning for one)
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23178 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 8, 2008 1:53 PM
|
> Dante seems like his is dead weight, pardon the >pun,
> and I think Kimmie knows it. Kimmie is strictly
> about the payoff
Omar's opinion of Dante changes slowly as the season goes on. I don't want to say anymore, but will bring it up when the time is right.
>..and so is Omar but he has a >little
> personal issue of vengeance going on too.
This is Omar's one weakness, his desire for immediate vengeance. Had he chosen instead to bide his time and follow Tosha's advice about robbing other dealers for a while she might still be alive.
> Also this is where I start really paying attention >to
> the Carver character too. He begins to see his >job
> differently, I think, as a result of Colvin. I think
> Colvin is more of a teacher to those under him, I
> mean to those who want to learn.
Agreed. Carver seems to progress slowly but surely over the seasons. Herc, if anything, goes backwards, or, at the very least stands still.
>Landsman, he knows
> the game and how to play it but there isn't that >much
> depth to him at all. He has his moments but >they are
> moments none the less.
I had to think about this one for a minute because I like Jay Landsman. His sense of humor, like Bunk's, can go off the chart.
Okay, here is my take for what it's worth:
Landsman is a survivor. Basically I think he is good police. (He did a first rate job at the crime scene when Kima got shot, for example.)
But he has two problems. Three, actually: First he is only a sergeant so he lacks the authority of an officer, but still has the responsibility for getting people to work together and get things done within The Homicide Unit. Often this means issuing orders from the top brass which he knows to be stupid, but must be obeyed to keep his head on his sholders. This takes the combined talents of a jokester, a buffoon, a smart administrator, a confessor, and a politician. He does them all pretty well, I think.
Secondly, he is mostly in house now and his street smarts have probably tarnished more than a little, but he works with some pretty savvy detectives.
Thirdly, and most importantly he must still be sharp enough to mediate between his boss, Bill Rawls, and the rank and file detectives, so that A) they don't all quit and B) that Rawls is generally kept happy, or satisfied, or whatever state he is in when he's not out for everyone's blood. Overall my feeling is that he is a pretty sharp cookie who works hard to come off as a happy-go-lucky type while struggling mightily to keep things from blowing up. IMO that takes a man with some real depth.
> Now that I think about it, I think Season 3 is my
> favorite of all the Seasons. It moves slow in the
> beginning but when it kicks in it really kicks in.
Amen! I still like S1 the best, mostly because it was such ground breaking work at the time, but S3 sure gives it a run for it's money.
|
|
|
Posts:
235
Registered:
11/11/07
|
|
(23177 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 8, 2008 1:27 PM
|
> The Forty degree day scene is not only a
> classic as far as humor is concerned, but shows us
> just what Stringer's day-to-day must be like much of
> the time.
>
> "We gonna be on 'em like a forty degree day!"
>
>
I refer to those two the one with the dreads and the young and dumb one as the 2 Stooges. They are not the sharpest knives in the drawer. Are we seeing much of Poot in these episodes? We did in the opening.
|
|
|
Posts:
235
Registered:
11/11/07
|
|
(23176 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 8, 2008 1:16 PM
|
> > You know Carcetti is a shrewd, cut throat
> >womanizer
> > son of a gun and I could not stand him when I
> >first
> > watched this Season. But in the end, if you want
> >to
> > win you have to play the game. I wonder how >long
> it
> > takes his wife to figure out who her husband is or
>
> > maybe she already knows who he is and what >he does
>
> > and is biding her time .
>
> Jen comes off as a Stepford wife to me. Maybe she
> knows who he is and what he does and accepts it as
> part of the game she has to play to be who -and where
> she is.
>
> > However, don't you have to have a wee bit of
> > a death wish when you rob drug dealers?
>
> An interesting question. One could argue both ways
> i.e. they DO have a death wish or they are supreme
> egotists who believe no harm will come to them. I
> think it has more to do with the latter; that they
> can get away with it every time by super careful
> planning. Consider this: Since Omar has been with us
> he has lost only three of his crew: Bailey, Brandon
> and Tosha. Both Bailey and Brandon were not killed in
> the act of robbery, and Tosha was shot by one of her
> own. So as lethal as the game is, the stickup part
> has been the least of their worries so far.
>
> > You know I really think Cheryl missed several
> >flags
> > that Kima was throwing up when the subject of
> >having
> > a baby came around. Kima was never, ever >excited
> > about it, at least that is my take on it. Also, if
>
> > you have a relationship with a police
> > officer/detective you have to know what the job
> >is.
> > It isn't a 9-5 hour day sometimes and it is
> > dangerous....period. Kima loves her job more >than
>
> > she does a family and I dont think she realized it
>
> > until she was in it.
>
> This goes back to my take which is that you don't
> enter into a serious relationship and then try to
> change your partner. You find the person you can
> accept as they are. Why hire a noted architect with a
> distinctive style and ask him/her to design like some
> other architect?
>
> We don't know what understanding Kima and Cheryl had
> about the nature of their relationship as they first
> entered into it, but clearly they seemed to have
> widely differing expectations. IMHO they should have
> come to an understanding before the pregnancy.
>
> > Also, I think we need to really start paying
> > attention to Bodie and his journey. At first he is
>
> > this young hot shot, who smarts off alot; a kid
> >you
> > don't pay too much attention to, but here's a kid
> > that you get to watch grow up in more ways >than
> one.
> > Everytime I think about Bodie, I think about his
> > grandmother and all she's been through and >what
> the
> > future holds for her.
>
> Admittedly Bodie has had a rough childhood, abandoned
> by his addict mother, raised by his grandmother, and
> seeing his brother shot to death, but the grandmother
> seems to be doing all she can despite her grandson's
> tragic beginnings. It's a sad truth that some things
> cannot be changed despite our best efforts. Bodie
> seems to fall into that catagory.
>
> > Cutty....poor Cutty. The brotha just will not give
>
> > up will he? It's been 14 years, your girl has
> > another life now and it doesn't include you. I feel
>
> > so bad for him.
>
> And now she has a child by someone else, too.
>
> > This guy must feel totally lost being gone 14
> >years
> > and he is now trying to find his place in the
> world.
>
> Yeah, it's a shame. And from the early photo of Grace
> that he has she seems to have gotten even more
> beautiful over the years. What a cold response she
> gives him when he tells her it hurts to look at her:
> "Then just don't look." *ouch!*
Ouch? I think that may have been a swift kick in the klick klacks. That had to sting. I'm thinking, Cutty, it is really over, what's left her closing the car door on your hand or something. You can't fault the brotha for trying though.
I have to say the girl looked a bit ghetto fab-u-lous is that snapshot.
|
|
|
Posts:
5,870
Registered:
11/8/04
|
|
(23175 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 8, 2008 1:11 PM
|
The Forty degree day scene is not only a classic as far as humor is concerned, but shows us just what Stringer's day-to-day must be like much of the time.
"We gonna be on 'em like a forty degree day!"
|
|
|
Posts:
235
Registered:
11/11/07
|
|
(23174 of 23188)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Oct 8, 2008 1:10 PM
|
I forgot all about the 40 degree day scene, really, Stringer had a couple scenes in this Season that were priceless. His facial response to the not so bright young man was hilarious.
Donte seems like his is dead weight, pardon the pun, and I think Kimmie knows it. Kimmie is strictly about the payoff and so is Omar but he has a little personal issue of vengence going on too.
Also this is where I start really paying attention to the Carver character too. He begins to see his job differently, I think, as a result of Colvin. I think Colvin is more of a teacher to those under him, I mean to those who want to learn. Landsman, he knows the game and how to play it but there isn't that much depth to him at all. He has his moments but they are moments none the less.
Now that I think about it, I think Season 3 is my favorite of all the Seasons. It moves slow in the beginning but when it kicks in it really kicks in.
Also, we get the new characters Cutty and the infamous Slim Charles, played by Anwan Glover. I had a friend of mine tell me the true story behind Anwan Glover and he is a stand up guy.
|
|
|
|
|
