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O.K., it's the dead of winter,everyone is strung out waiting for Albrecht to get a sign from heaven, tempers grow short, and we are all losing our focus. What's needed is a good shot of Wire watching! S1/S2 are now out on dvd, and a lot of you have taped the show so it's possible for us to watch the first 25 episodes together again, and then chat it up here. The idea is simple: Two nights a week on the schedule below, we all watch the episode, starting with S1/E1 and then discuss it that night or the next day. The balance of the week is for ongoing discussion, and will allow those with schedule conflicts to catch up. For those without video, we will post episode summaries ahead of time so you can join in. Granted, the element of speculation about upcoming shows is lost,but even there it might be fun to ponder missed opportunities and alternate plot arcs. This little journey will get us past winter, and into spring, when we all need to shed that 'Television Tan', and get outdoors. So here we go; Stringer, D'Angelo, Wallace and Sobotka are all alive again. Avon is out of jail, and the detail is yet to meet. join us for a Wire marathon! SCHEDULE The First Season Mon. Feb 14 - episode 1 "The Target" Wed. Feb 16 - episode 2 "The Detail" Mon. Feb.21 - episode 3 "The Buys" Wed. Feb.23 - episode 4 "Old Cases" Mon. Feb 28 - episode 5 "The Pager" Wed. Mar. 2 - episode 6 "The Wire" Mon. Mar. 7 - episode 7 "One Arrest" Wed. Mar. 9 - episode 8 "Lessons" Mon. Mar.14 - episode 9 "Game Day" Wed. mar.16 - episode 10 "The Cost" Mon. Mar. 21- episode 11 "The Hunt" Wed. Mar. 23- episode 12 "Cleaning up Mon. mar. 28- episode 13 "Sentencing" The Second Season Wed. Mar. 30 - episode 1 "Ebb Tide" Mon. Apr. 4 - episode 2 " Collateral Damage" Wed. Apr. 6 - episode 3 "Hot Shots" Mon. Apr. 11 - episode 4 "Hard Cases" Wed. Apr. 13 - episode 5 "Undertow" Mon. Apr. 18 - episode 6 "All Prologue" Wed. Apr. 20 - episode 7 "Backwash" Mon. Apr. 25 - episode 8 "Duck and cover" Wed. Apr. 27 - episode 9 "Stray Rounds" Mon. May 2 - episode 10 "Storm Warnings" Wed. May 4 - episode 11 "Bad Dreams" Mon. May 9 - episode 12 "Port in a Storm" ( this thread is brought to you by BorninDempsy and donincincy: a wholly owned subsidiary of B and B enterprises.  )
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(25288 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 8, 2009 7:07 PM
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Naomi Campbell, really?
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(25287 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 8, 2009 5:40 PM
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Oh, and I don't give a shit what either of you say Don or Gregstah, The Greek is not Greek.
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(25286 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 8, 2009 5:39 PM
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Ok, sorry, Season 1 observation. This song is playing in the background in Season 1, I think, when Weebay is eating the horse radish sammich, as I recall -
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToRLCh4m3vA&feature=related
I always thought it an odd choice of background song, and couldn't pin down the artist, but, now I get it.
"It's knowin' that your door is always open
And your path is free to walk
That makes me tend to leave my sleepin' bag
Rolled up and stashed behind your couch
And it's knowin' I'm not shackled
By forgotten words and bonds
And the ink stains that have dried upon some line
That keeps you in the back roads
By the rivers of my memory
That keeps you ever gentle on my mind
It's not clingin' to the rocks and ivy
Planted on their columns now that bind me
Or something that somebody said because
They thought we fit together walkin'
It's just knowing that the world
Will not be cursing or forgiving
When I walk along some railroad track and find
That you're movin' on the back roads
By the rivers of my memory
And for hours you're just gentle on my mind
Though the wheat fields and the clothes lines
And the junkyards and the highways come between us
And some other woman's cryin' to her mother
'cause she turned and I was gone
I still might run in silence
Tears of joy might stain my face
And the summer sun might burn me till I'm blind
But not to where I cannot see
You walkin' on the back roads
By the rivers flowin' gentle on my mind
I dip my cup of soup back from a gurglin' cracklin' cauldron
In some train yard
My beard a rustlin' coal pile
And a dirty hat pulled low across my face
Through cupped hands 'round a tin can
I pretend to hold you to my breast and find
That you're waitin' from the back roads
By the rivers of my memory
Ever smilin', ever gentle on my mind"
Now I get it.
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(25285 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 8, 2009 12:13 AM
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> > "And I am not Greek."
> > "But my name is not my name."
> >
> > After several years of pondering, I've finally
> >boiled
> > my theory on the Greek's national identity down
> to
> > two possibilities (which a simpleton could
> probably
> > have accomplished in less time):
> >
> > 1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in
> his
> > remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the
> citizenship
> > shown in a fake passport he now has that gives
> him a
> > different nationality and name, in the same way
> that
> > Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than
> > Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian;
> >
> > 2. The Greek is a citizen from the Greek
> minority of
> > a country nearby to Greece, such as Macedonia -
> he's
> > Greek in every respect but nationality.
> >
> > I've decided that the first is the most likely,
> given
> > his language, the access to fake passports which
> his
> > crowd uses frequently, and his indicating to
> the
> > Turkish crewmember he had killed that he is
> aware of
> > the historical enmity between Greeks and Turk,
> >this
> > latter point because he probably wouldn't have
> been
> > so open about his Greek identity with someone
> he
> > didn't intend to kill.
>
> I have to agree with both gregstah and Ahmed. "The
> Greek" is, in fact, Greek IMO. In addition to Ahmed's
> arguments set forth above, there are any number of
> other little tip-offs:
>
> *The man carries and uses Greek worry beads.
>
> *He drinks Ouzo, a Greek liquor.
>
> *Early in S2 he comments that the cook at the diner
> should be ashamed to call his food Greek. The man
> obviously knows Greek cooking.
>
> *Vondas uses the term Tholaria in this episode
> as a synonym for the amount of currency left on the
> dock in the unclaimed drug container. Tholaria is
> actually a small Greek village. Only another Greek
> would get the reference.
>
> * He has been recruited by Special Agent Koutris,
> himself a Greek, so there is a nationalistic tie
> between them.
>
>
> *The background music in the previous episode (Where
> Frank goes to meet his fate.) is Greek, and that
> episode was written by George Pelecanos, himself
> Greek-American.
>
> So there you have it. Is "The Greek" really Greek? In
> truth it really doesn't matter except as a matter of
> curiosity, but for my money, based on all the facts
> in evidence he IS Greek.
>
> As always, it remains for our Marathon crew to decide
> for themselves.
when a man who resides on a peak in tibet next door to the dali lamma (sp), ok it's really a garbage pile in cleveland next to lake erie, a man with vast knowledge of all things," the wire " he also can recite dialouge from my mother the car, speaking of car he has an antique volvo that gets him to all the early bird specials, a man who has been known to knock boots with naomi campell, back in the day it was 23 skidoo with butterfly mc queen, when this man, the man who put the don in donincincy, when HE agrees with me, youuuuuuuu knowwwwwwwww the debate is ovahhhh!!!!
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 8, 2009 12:07 AM
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> > i will speculate, the don
> > loves a SWAG, that mouzone i just a thug in
> disguise.
> > he is a gun for hire from NYC who can move
> about
> > b'more and take somebody like cheese by
> surprise,
> > this will only work the first time you encounter
> him,
> > but that plays into the hired gun theory.
>
> Actually the last time we watched this episode
> together you would have been right. Watching this all
> again I am fairly confident that he is a Muslim.
> (Despite DS's protestations.)
>
> The problem I had all along was how to reconcile that
> someone so devout could also be a killer. A post by
> frannie turned on the lightbulb. Like the so-called
> Muslims who flew the planes into those towers as an
> act of faith, Mouzone could rationalize his killing
> as serving some greater good. I won't try to explain
> that because it doesn't seem to make sense, but then
> 9/11 didn't either.
All kinds of people are doing all kinds of things and rationalizing and justifying on this show, why not a devout Muslim. Maybe he supports terrorism, and therefore justifies his killing for a fee...
Also, the FBI guy, Koutros, well see here is the fundamental flaw in our system. He knew who the leak came from. Come on people, lets get together, but no... he wasn't going to tell him, so that maybe just maybe, the Homeland Security guy, might know who he is dealing with? Just does not make sense to me. But then, well, if you were me, you might understand why it does not make sense to me.
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Posts:
6,623
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(25283 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 7, 2009 3:33 PM
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First thoughts on S2/E25:
The Sobotka family can surely be described as star-crossed as S2 comes to an end. Frank dead, Ziggy in prison, and Nicky in the Witness Protection Program, which in all likelihood means cutting off ties with his father, Louis and his mother.
There is more than enough irony in this episode, but one particular event stands out for me: Frank, who has ignored Ziggy most of the kid's life, lays down his life for his son at the end.
Speaking of Witness Protection, what a seedy dump the FBI put Nick and Aimee in. There is even a towel on the bathroom floor from the last tenant. (A nice set design touch, that.) And don't miss the irony of the name: The "El Rich" motel.
Speaking of irony, did you notice what Bub's Tee shirt had written on it when he was arrested for the ambulance heist. It said "Lucky."
We finally get the low-down on Agent Koutris. He hasn't been in San Diego for over a year, but is in DC with the counterterrorism unit. As Agent Fitzhugh explains it to Daniels, Vondas and the Greek are assets feeding the FBI information on National Security threats in exchange for 'favors.'
Notice, for example, when Daniels says "If they didn't get to us sooner this would have been a hell of a case." that Agent Fitzhugh just looks at the ground. He knows where the leak was that tipped off Vondas and The Greek.
Of course this all has to be put in perspective. The second season was shot in 2003, just two years after 9/11, so everyone was still pretty jumpy.
Speaking of actors playing a scene with their eyes, there is none better than Lance Reddick playing Cedric Daniels in Valchek's office. His ploy to get Prez back on the detail works so well it gets a rare hint of a smile as he lets Valchek rant on. Clearly he knows he has already won.
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 7, 2009 3:09 PM
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> Stringer, unable too resist asking if
> Mouzone knows who shot him, is dismissed with a
> curt
> "Thank you for your concern."
>
> When Stringer asks, "'They'? Who came at you?", it's
> possible that at that moment Brother may have picked
> up the germ of the idea that Stringer had a hand in
> it.
We have spoken many times about good actors using their eyes, and the Stringer/Mouzone meeting is a good case-in-point. Once Mouzone uses the word "they", we see a worried look cross Stringer's face.
Mouzone is way too smart not to smell a rat. He may not yet know the details, but the fact that he refuses to give Stringer any information speaks volumes.
And again in the Prison scene when Avon hesitates to return the 'fist bump' we see Stringer looking very concerned. Surely he knows by now that both Avon and Brother Mouzone -two very smart cookies- sense something is amiss.
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(25281 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 7, 2009 3:00 PM
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> "And I am not Greek."
> "But my name is not my name."
>
> After several years of pondering, I've finally >boiled
> my theory on the Greek's national identity down to
> two possibilities (which a simpleton could probably
> have accomplished in less time):
>
> 1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in his
> remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the citizenship
> shown in a fake passport he now has that gives him a
> different nationality and name, in the same way that
> Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than
> Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian;
>
> 2. The Greek is a citizen from the Greek minority of
> a country nearby to Greece, such as Macedonia - he's
> Greek in every respect but nationality.
>
> I've decided that the first is the most likely, given
> his language, the access to fake passports which his
> crowd uses frequently, and his indicating to the
> Turkish crewmember he had killed that he is aware of
> the historical enmity between Greeks and Turk, >this
> latter point because he probably wouldn't have been
> so open about his Greek identity with someone he
> didn't intend to kill.
I have to agree with both gregstah and Ahmed. "The Greek" is, in fact, Greek IMO. In addition to Ahmed's arguments set forth above, there are any number of other little tip-offs:
*The man carries and uses Greek worry beads.
*He drinks Ouzo, a Greek liquor.
*Early in S2 he comments that the cook at the diner should be ashamed to call his food Greek. The man obviously knows Greek cooking.
*Vondas uses the term Tholaria in this episode as a synonym for the amount of currency left on the dock in the unclaimed drug container. Tholaria is actually a small Greek village. Only another Greek would get the reference.
* He has been recruited by Special Agent Koutris, himself a Greek, so there is a nationalistic tie between them.
*The background music in the previous episode (Where Frank goes to meet his fate.) is Greek, and that episode was written by George Pelecanos, himself Greek-American.
So there you have it. Is "The Greek" really Greek? In truth it really doesn't matter except as a matter of curiosity, but for my money, based on all the facts in evidence he IS Greek.
As always, it remains for our Marathon crew to decide for themselves.
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(25280 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 7, 2009 2:34 PM
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> 1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in his
> remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the citizenship
> shown in a fake passport he now has that gives him a
> different nationality and name, in the same way that
> Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than
> Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian
>
>
> when a noted wire scholar like ahmedkhan agrees with
> me, the debate is over.
And what about me? What am I, chopped liver? says donincincy with a petulant look on his visage
(And I'm awarding myself 100 points for the word visage, too!)
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498
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1/16/08
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(25279 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 7, 2009 12:27 PM
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Stringer, unable too resist asking if
> Mouzone knows who shot him, is dismissed with a curt
> "Thank you for your concern."
When Stringer asks, "'They'? Who came at you?", it's possible that at that moment Brother may have picked up the germ of the idea that Stringer had a hand in it. If only he knew that it was Prop Joe all along (like Barzini in The Godfather).
>
Omar, realizing he's
> been played by Stringer, is furious with himself.
> "I'm going at Stringer," he vows, and when Butchie
> gives him Stringer's phone number, he's off.
Omar says, "I'm going hard after Stringer." And Butchie doesn't give any phone number. It must have been an long day by the time the summary writer got around to penning this.
>
> In Burrell's office with Rawls, Daniels and the FBI's
> Reese and Fitzhugh, Pearlman explains that Sobotka
> was planning to cooperate with police before he was
> killed. Burrell wonders if they have a leak in the
> squad. Daniels trusts his people, he says, and
> Pearlman has everything under lock and key at the
> courthouse. Only Fitzhugh seems uncertain, but he
> says nothing. Daniels explains that all the suspects
> in the case have been picked up except for the number
> two man Vondas who's still at large because they
> are "hoping he'll lead us to number one." He admits,
> however, that Vondas has eluded his tail at the
> moment. But when he's picked up, Pearlman says, they
> have a solid case of racketeering, drugs and
> prostitution against him. As for the union, Reese
> explains, with Sobotka dead, the FBI has an
> inconsequential case against a subordinate or two of
> his. But, she adds, "the important thing... was to
> make a public example. Either the union jettisons the
> current leadership, or we have enough to get that
> local decertified." Rawls remains obsessed with the
> 14 unsolved murders on his hands. "When, oh when, do
> we get to that bit of business?" he asks.
I can't fault Rawls here.
> Stringer visits Avon in prison and tells him Mouzone
> was ambushed in his motel room and that Mouzone is
> going home once he recovers from his wounds. Avon is
> irritated when Stringer tells him he asked Mouzone
> who shot him. "How you gonna ask a soldier like
> Mouzone a question like that? Either he gonna say, or
> he gonna go to work on it. But either way, you ain't
> askin' such shit." Their relationship is more fragile
> than ever, but Avon concedes to the alliance with
> Proposition Joe, and they part nevertheless with
> knuckles to the window once again.
The pattern of fist bumps on the glass is one of steadily declining enthusiasm on the part of Avon. In the first episode it's Avon who initiates it. Midseason he hesitates before doing it. And now he obviously does it with great reluctance.
I also have to admire Avon's putting things into perspective for Stringer - "It's about that other thing. The street is the street. Always."
>
> It's left to Beadie Russell to sum it up: "I mean we
> locked some people up, right? But Frank is still
> gonna be dead and the port is still screwed and the
> guy who killed the girls, he got killed anyway. And
> the girls I mean the ones we locked up, they're
> probably back in Europe right now getting into
> another shipping container."
Yep.
This season is fantastic, better with each viewing.
--
Edited by ahmedkhan at 12/07/2009 9:56 AM PST
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(25278 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 7:11 PM
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> BTW, if you debunk your own post, is that like
> talking to yourself?
nah, i don't think so
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(25277 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 7:10 PM
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BTW, if you debunk your own post, is that like talking to yourself?
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(25276 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 7:09 PM
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1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in his remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the citizenship shown in a fake passport he now has that gives him a different nationality and name, in the same way that Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian
when a noted wire scholar like ahmedkhan agrees with me, the debate is over
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498
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(25275 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 5:28 PM
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Check out Carver's glare in the car with Herc right before they start pounding on Nick's parents' door. It could bore through lead. Carver and Herc have been on another long, boring stakeout and are inciting each other. This glare of Carver is identical to that he had in the interrogation room with Bodie right after Bodie punks him with, "I want ...(pregnant pause)...for you do suck my d***." The glare indicates that the point of no return has been passed and that Carver is going to spring - no stopping it.
You can't really fault these two for their subsequent confrontation with Daniels after they learn they weren't informed of Nick's turning himself in. They have been treated like minor players on the team, dismissively at times, and are understandably steamed. And Daniels has to realize that he is at fault here for not seeing to it they were informed, this right on the heels of the Homicide unit's not informing him of the Highlandtown murder. The consequences of his not being informed of that murder are certainly much graver than those stemming from his not informing Herc and Carver of Nick's surrender, but these detectives still have every reason to be angry.
BTW, Carver gives another facial expression that's also shown twice in different seasons, specifically the startled/disgusted "who the hell is this guy?!?" look he directs at Herc after 1). in Season 1, when in a roundup he seriously advises Carver to address him as "sir" in front of the other officers, anticipating that having scored higher than Carver on the sergeants' exam he'll soon be promoted over Carver; and 2). in Season 2, after he makes the crude remark about Beadie right after Beadie rebuffs his advance.
--
Edited by ahmedkhan at 12/07/2009 9:06 AM PST
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498
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(25274 of 25303)
Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 5:27 PM
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"And I am not Greek."
"But my name is not my name."
After several years of pondering, I've finally boiled my theory on the Greek's national identity down to two possibilities (which a simpleton could probably have accomplished in less time):
1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in his remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the citizenship shown in a fake passport he now has that gives him a different nationality and name, in the same way that Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian;
2. The Greek is a citizen from the Greek minority of a country nearby to Greece, such as Macedonia - he's Greek in every respect but nationality.
I've decided that the first is the most likely, given his language, the access to fake passports which his crowd uses frequently, and his indicating to the Turkish crewmember he had killed that he is aware of the historical enmity between Greeks and Turk, this latter point because he probably wouldn't have been so open about his Greek identity with someone he didn't intend to kill.
When Vondopolous says, "My name is not my name," I think his real first name actually is Spiros, since the Greek addresses him with it, but his real surname may or may not be Vondopolous. If his real surname is Vondopolous, he, like the Greek, is alluding to the name on his latest fake passport.
Anyhow, that's my read. And anyone who disagrees with it is?? a SCREAMING A**H***! (Just joking).
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