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O.K., it's the dead of winter,everyone is strung out waiting for Albrecht to get a sign from heaven, tempers grow short, and we are all losing our focus. What's needed is a good shot of Wire watching! S1/S2 are now out on dvd, and a lot of you have taped the show so it's possible for us to watch the first 25 episodes together again, and then chat it up here. The idea is simple: Two nights a week on the schedule below, we all watch the episode, starting with S1/E1 and then discuss it that night or the next day. The balance of the week is for ongoing discussion, and will allow those with schedule conflicts to catch up. For those without video, we will post episode summaries ahead of time so you can join in. Granted, the element of speculation about upcoming shows is lost,but even there it might be fun to ponder missed opportunities and alternate plot arcs. This little journey will get us past winter, and into spring, when we all need to shed that 'Television Tan', and get outdoors. So here we go; Stringer, D'Angelo, Wallace and Sobotka are all alive again. Avon is out of jail, and the detail is yet to meet. join us for a Wire marathon! SCHEDULE The First Season Mon. Feb 14 - episode 1 "The Target" Wed. Feb 16 - episode 2 "The Detail" Mon. Feb.21 - episode 3 "The Buys" Wed. Feb.23 - episode 4 "Old Cases" Mon. Feb 28 - episode 5 "The Pager" Wed. Mar. 2 - episode 6 "The Wire" Mon. Mar. 7 - episode 7 "One Arrest" Wed. Mar. 9 - episode 8 "Lessons" Mon. Mar.14 - episode 9 "Game Day" Wed. mar.16 - episode 10 "The Cost" Mon. Mar. 21- episode 11 "The Hunt" Wed. Mar. 23- episode 12 "Cleaning up Mon. mar. 28- episode 13 "Sentencing" The Second Season Wed. Mar. 30 - episode 1 "Ebb Tide" Mon. Apr. 4 - episode 2 " Collateral Damage" Wed. Apr. 6 - episode 3 "Hot Shots" Mon. Apr. 11 - episode 4 "Hard Cases" Wed. Apr. 13 - episode 5 "Undertow" Mon. Apr. 18 - episode 6 "All Prologue" Wed. Apr. 20 - episode 7 "Backwash" Mon. Apr. 25 - episode 8 "Duck and cover" Wed. Apr. 27 - episode 9 "Stray Rounds" Mon. May 2 - episode 10 "Storm Warnings" Wed. May 4 - episode 11 "Bad Dreams" Mon. May 9 - episode 12 "Port in a Storm" ( this thread is brought to you by BorninDempsy and donincincy: a wholly owned subsidiary of B and B enterprises.  )
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 7:10 PM
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BTW, if you debunk your own post, is that like talking to yourself?
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 7:09 PM
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1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in his remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the citizenship shown in a fake passport he now has that gives him a different nationality and name, in the same way that Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian
when a noted wire scholar like ahmedkhan agrees with me, the debate is over
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 5:28 PM
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Check out Carver's glare in the car with Herc right before they start pounding on Nick's parents' door. It could bore through lead. Carver and Herc have been on another long, boring stakeout and are inciting each other. This glare of Carver is identical to that he had in the interrogation room with Bodie right after Bodie punks him with, "I want ...(pregnant pause)...for you do suck my d***." The glare indicates that the point of no return has been passed and that Carver is going to spring - no stopping it.
You can't really fault these two for their subsequent confrontation with Daniels after they learn they weren't informed of Nick's turning himself in. They have been treated like minor players on the team, dismissively at times, and are understandably steamed. And Daniels has to realize that he is at fault here for not seeing to it they were informed, this right on the heels of the Homicide unit's not informing him of the Highlandtown murder. The consequences of his not being informed of that murder are certainly much graver than those stemming from his not informing Herc and Carver of Nick's surrender, but these detectives still have every reason to be angry.
BTW, Carver gives another facial expression that's also shown twice in different seasons, specifically the startled/disgusted "who the hell is this guy?!?" look he directs at Herc after 1). in Season 1, when in a roundup he seriously advises Carver to address him as "sir" in front of the other officers, anticipating that having scored higher than Carver on the sergeants' exam he'll soon be promoted over Carver; and 2). in Season 2, after he makes the crude remark about Beadie right after Beadie rebuffs his advance.
--
Edited by ahmedkhan at 12/07/2009 9:06 AM PST
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 5:27 PM
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"And I am not Greek."
"But my name is not my name."
After several years of pondering, I've finally boiled my theory on the Greek's national identity down to two possibilities (which a simpleton could probably have accomplished in less time):
1. The Greek actually is a Greek national but in his remark to Vondopolous is alluding to the citizenship shown in a fake passport he now has that gives him a different nationality and name, in the same way that Vondopolous' latest fake passport is other than Greek, just as his prior one was Hungarian;
2. The Greek is a citizen from the Greek minority of a country nearby to Greece, such as Macedonia - he's Greek in every respect but nationality.
I've decided that the first is the most likely, given his language, the access to fake passports which his crowd uses frequently, and his indicating to the Turkish crewmember he had killed that he is aware of the historical enmity between Greeks and Turk, this latter point because he probably wouldn't have been so open about his Greek identity with someone he didn't intend to kill.
When Vondopolous says, "My name is not my name," I think his real first name actually is Spiros, since the Greek addresses him with it, but his real surname may or may not be Vondopolous. If his real surname is Vondopolous, he, like the Greek, is alluding to the name on his latest fake passport.
Anyhow, that's my read. And anyone who disagrees with it is?? a SCREAMING A**H***! (Just joking).
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 5:22 PM
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"What's The Plan?"
I think it's Episode 16 or 17 in which three different people ask this question: Amiee, asking about their future as she, Nick and their kid are walking down by the terminal; Prez, asking one of the humps what they're intending to do about their mission; and Landsman, asking Lester and Bunk about the Atlantic Light. It surprises me the episode wasn't given this as a title, or doesn't at least have the question as its by-line. For each of us, it's not thinking through and coming up with an intelligent answer to this very important question that leads to so many screw-ups in our affairs. As sympathetic as I tend to be with Lester and Bunk, I have to concede that as a supervisor Landsman had the appropriate response.
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 5:11 PM
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> > but then again, if he was a fraud, why would he
> be
> > saying muslim prayers as he lays there
> dying......
>
> Okay, since we are debunking our own theories let me
> address mine, that is, that Mouzone is Muslim.
>
> How do we know he was saying MUSLIM prayers? I
> saw his mouth moving, but I didn't hear anything he
> was saying. Couldn't they have been Baptist prayers?
> Did I miss something?
If you watch his mouth closely you can see that the first words he's saying are "Allhu au Akbar." It may be that I'm "reading" this based on an assumption that he's Muslim and would be saying this, but I still think these words "fit" into his lip movements. Give it a try and see what you think.
>
> > am i the only person who has ever debunked his
> own
> > post within moments typing it?
>
> Nope.
Oh, why, hell no.
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 4:01 PM
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> but then again, if he was a fraud, why would he be
> saying muslim prayers as he lays there dying......
Okay, since we are debunking our own theories let me address mine, that is, that Mouzone is Muslim.
How do we know he was saying MUSLIM prayers? I saw his mouth moving, but I didn't hear anything he was saying. Couldn't they have been Baptist prayers? Did I miss something?
> am i the only person who has ever debunked his own
> post within moments typing it?
Nope.
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 3:56 PM
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> i will speculate, the don
> loves a SWAG, that mouzone i just a thug in disguise.
> he is a gun for hire from NYC who can move about
> b'more and take somebody like cheese by surprise,
> this will only work the first time you encounter him,
> but that plays into the hired gun theory.
Actually the last time we watched this episode together you would have been right. Watching this all again I am fairly confident that he is a Muslim. (Despite DS's protestations.)
The problem I had all along was how to reconcile that someone so devout could also be a killer. A post by frannie turned on the lightbulb. Like the so-called Muslims who flew the planes into those towers as an act of faith, Mouzone could rationalize his killing as serving some greater good. I won't try to explain that because it doesn't seem to make sense, but then 9/11 didn't either.
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 3:48 PM
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> but then again, if he was a fraud, why would he be
> saying muslim prayers as he lays there dying......
>
> am i the only person who has ever debunked his own
> post within moments typing it?
If not, you sure come close to setting a record. Marathon World Headquarters awards you 25 totally useless bonus points.
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 3:45 PM
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"Business. Always business." - The Greek
Summary; S2/E25
Directed by: Robert F. Colesberry
Story by: David Simon
Teleplay by: David Simon & Ed Burns
At the cargo terminal, stevedores and checkers gathering at dawn for a day of work notice a police launch idling in the harbor, a policeman struggling with another floater. About the same time, Nick knocks on his uncle Frank Sobotka's door and learns he never returned home the previous evening. Fearing the worst, he races to the desolate spot under the Key Bridge where Sobotka was to meet Vondas and The Greek the evening before and finds Sobotka's truck parked and locked. At the dock, the longshoremen ? including Sobotka's colleagues Ott, Maui, Moonshot, Little Big Roy ? meet the police launch. Nick arrives at the same moment and sees, as the policemen lift off a body ? Frank Sobotka ? stabbed, throat slashed and blue from 18 hours in the water.
Stringer Bell visits Brother Mouzone in the hospital, inquiring of his recovery. Telling Mouzone that "we got your back" and "whoever did this, we find 'em," Stringer finds Mouzone even colder and more remote than usual. "I appreciate the offer," Mouzoune says, "but that won't be necessary. Inform Mr. Barksdale that any obligation he feels might have with regards to this incident, it's absolved, along with our agreement." Stringer, unable too resist asking if Mouzone knows who shot him, is dismissed with a curt "Thank you for your concern."
Nick, consumed with grief and guilt, is watched over by Horseface and others at his uncle's office. When he grows angry however and tries to leave, vowing to "kill 'em, all of 'em. Fucking Greek bastards," Coxson and La-La stop him, reminding him of Ziggy's fate. Instead, with his father, he turns himself in at police headquarters.
Omar, visiting Butchie at the ghetto bar, tells him that, incited by Stringer, he shot Brother Mouzone, whom Stringer said had killed Brandon. He didn't actually kill Mouzone, Omar explains, because Mouzone seemed genuinely puzzled when Omar accused him of killing Brandon. Butchie confirms Omar's insight, explaining that Mouzone works his evil "mostly up north ? New York and Philly." Omar, realizing he's been played by Stringer, is furious with himself. "I'm going at Stringer," he vows, and when Butchie gives him Stringer's phone number, he's off.
In Valchek's office, Daniels explains that the night before, Sobotka had agreed to spill the beans on the Greeks. "So he lays down with gangsters, gets up with his throat cut. I almost feel sorry for the sonofabitch," Valchek says in a rare moment of sympthy. When the conversation turns to the contretemps with Prez, Valchek says he intends to bring charges against his son-in-law. Daniels, at his cunning best, explains all the witnesses to the incident ? FBI agents and his own detail ? wrote up reports on what they saw, and included the fact that Valchek incited Prez, a subordinate officer. Valchek backs down and demands a slap-on-the-wrist punishment for Prez. Daniels smiles secretly, having saved his man.
In Burrell's office with Rawls, Daniels and the FBI's Reese and Fitzhugh, Pearlman explains that Sobotka was planning to cooperate with police before he was killed. Burrell wonders if they have a leak in the squad. Daniels trusts his people, he says, and Pearlman has everything under lock and key at the courthouse. Only Fitzhugh seems uncertain, but he says nothing. Daniels explains that all the suspects in the case have been picked up except for the number two man ? Vondas ? who's still at large because they are "hoping he'll lead us to number one." He admits, however, that Vondas has eluded his tail at the moment. But when he's picked up, Pearlman says, they have a solid case of racketeering, drugs and prostitution against him. As for the union, Reese explains, with Sobotka dead, the FBI has an inconsequential case against a subordinate or two of his. But, she adds, "the important thing... was to make a public example. Either the union jettisons the current leadership, or we have enough to get that local decertified." Rawls remains obsessed with the 14 unsolved murders on his hands. "When, oh when, do we get to that bit of business?" he asks.
Vondas, the detail learns, has dumped his Mercedes in a parking garage, abandoned his home as well as cell phone calls and text messages. They do not realize that he is visiting The Greek at a hotel in downtown Baltimore to discuss how much effort should be put into killing Nick, who, having realized they've killed his uncle, is more inclined to spill his guts to the police. "I am thinking there is nothing to be done at this point," The Greek responds. They also discuss the 150 kilos of heroin soon to arrive at the cargo dock, and decide to let it remain there. "Lambs go to slaughter," The Greek says. "A man ? he learns when to walk away." They also discuss providing good legal help for Eton, Serge and the Russian madam, all in police custody, so no one will flip.
Ushered into the detail office, Nick marvels at the bulletin board and its detail on the whole case. "You guys are on all of it, huh?" he says. He tells Pearlman, Freamon and Bunk not to bother with a lawyer for him. "They killed my uncle. I don't need to talk to no one but you people," he says. He knows the Greeks killed Sobotka, he says, because Sobotka met with them the previous evening, after having told Nick of his intention to finger them. Nick felt he had convinced Sobotka to change his mind by revealing the Greeks' plan to bring pressure on the clerk in Glekas's store to change his story. If Ziggy could claim self-defense, he'd walk, Nick says. And Sobotka, apparently agreeing with him, had left to meet with the Greeks.
Nick also explains to the cops that the longshoremen really weren't aware of the girls who died in the container. "We were paid by the can," he says, "to creep the shit off the docks. That's all." He also exonerates Sobotka in any drug dealing, admitting that he did that on his own. Bunk explains to Nick that Sobotka had cut a deal to make things easier on Nick and on Ziggy before he was killed, and the police are willing to extend that deal to Nick. "You can walk with a suspended sentence on the drug counts if you testify against the Greeks and their people."
Nick pounces on the offer and ticks off what he knows of the operation, fingering Vondas ("He told me an' Frank what cans to disappear, and when it got to me an' the drugs, he was the one who hooked that up."); Eton ("their drug guy"); Glekas ("in charge of stolen shit"); and Serge ("he drove for them"). The only lie he tells, trying to save one of his own, is that Horseface is clean. He also tells them it was Serge who went to Philly and killed the Atlantic Light seaman because he was responsible for the death of the girls. And he ID's a photo of The Greek, marking their primary target for the first time. Realizing Nick is a prime target now for the Greeks, the police pick up his girlfriend Aimee and his daughter and sequester the three of them in a motel room.
Freamon provides the second reminder to Fitz that the leaks in the investigation seemed to develop only after the FBI became involved. Troubled, Fitz calls the San Diego Field Office and is speechless when he learns that Agent Koutris is no longer there, and in fact was transferred to the D.C. counterterrorism unit more than a year ago.
Stringer visits Avon in prison and tells him Mouzone was ambushed in his motel room and that Mouzone is going home once he recovers from his wounds. Avon is irritated when Stringer tells him he asked Mouzone who shot him. "How you gonna ask a soldier like Mouzone a question like that? Either he gonna say, or he gonna go to work on it. But either way, you ain't askin' such shit." Their relationship is more fragile than ever, but Avon concedes to the alliance with Proposition Joe, and they part nevertheless with knuckles to the window once again.
At the cargo dock in Philly, Bunk and Freamon find security video of Serge driving his car onto the docks and kidnapping the seaman from the Atlantic Light weeks earlier. Confronted with the evidence back at the interrogation room, Serge flips, fingering Vondas as the seaman's killer and explaining that he was murdered because he had killed the women in the container. The fourteen homicides solved at last, the cops press Serge for details on the whereabouts of Vondas and The Greek. He directs them to a downtown hotel room, but by the time the cops arrive, the two are gone, passing through customs at the airport. "Business or pleasure on this trip," a customs inspector asks them. "Business. Always business," The Greek replies, and boards the plane.
At a bar in Baltimore, the squad wraps up the case with a few drinks. Nick has copped to smuggling on the cargo docks and dealing drugs; Serge has cleared up the murder of the girls; White Mike is down for narcotics. The question is whether to bring Proposition Joe in, too, since they have enough to indict him. Greggs suggests they wait, revealing a surveillance photo of Stringer meeting with Proposition Joe. "Major case squad would have some fun with that mess, dontcha think?" she says. And Fitzhugh comes clean with Daniels, telling him that the leak was not in fact with the police squad but most likely through FBI agent Koutris, now with the 9/11 boys in D.C. "I'm guessing Vondas or The Greek was an asset to them. Hooked up like that over who knows what."
It's left to Beadie Russell to sum it up: "I mean we locked some people up, right? But Frank is still gonna be dead and the port is still screwed and the guy who killed the girls, he got killed anyway. And the girls ? I mean the ones we locked up, they're probably back in Europe right now getting into another shipping container."
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 1:31 PM
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but then again, if he was a fraud, why would he be saying muslim prayers as he lays there dying......
am i the only person who has ever debunked his own post within moments typing it?
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 1:27 PM
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> Re Brother Mouzone, frannie says:
>
> > I heard him saying Muslim prayers to Allah as he
> lay
> > on the floor... Definitely Muslim.
>
> In a previous post I expressed surprise that Brother
> Mouzone could be an enforcer and hit man and yet
> still be a devout Muslim, but your post sparked a
> thought, and that is that we have witnessed more than
> a few Muslim extremists who use violence and justify
> it as faith based.
>
> With that thought in mind, it is no big leap to
> imagine Mouzone following the same logic.
>
> A shame, since the vast majority of Muslims around
> the world are decent peace loving people.
>
> While I can't say I like Brother Mouzone (Funny, but
> the two words just seem to want to be placed
> together.), I really do enjoy his character. Michael
> Potts plays that role to the hilt.
>
> --
> Edited by donincincy at 12/05/2009 7:04 AM PST
i seem to recall simon saying, simon sez if you will, that mouzone was not a muslim, it would have been nice if the interviewer asked the obvious follow up question, then what is he? i will speculate, the don loves a SWAG, that mouzone i just a thug in disguise. he is a gun for hire from NYC who can move about b'more and take somebody like cheese by surprise, this will only work the first time you encounter him, but that plays into the hired gun theory
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 1:17 PM
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> Frannie says:
>
> > Still having some problems with the FBI guy not
> being
> > dishonest. It is too much of a stretch for me.
> Why
> > how could he think that he is working for
> homeland
> > security. He sure seems dirty to me.
>
> Agent Koutris/my take:
>
> Okay, first it is important to remember that as far
> back as Season One, Agent Fitzhugh told McNulty that
> the FBI was no longer interested in drug cases. This,
> he explained was the direct result 0f 9/11. They
> were, from that point on, a counterterrorism focused
> organization.
>
> Further, all along through the series up until now
> The Detail's efforts to get the Feds interested in
> something other than political corruption or
> counterterrorism has failed. That, it was explained
> to Daniels/Freamon/ McNulty, was their new mandate as
> part of increased Homeland Security efforts.
>
> While we can't be sure of Special Agent Koutris's
> relationship with The Greek, he has a Greek name and
> that nationalism may partly play into it. There can
> be little doubt that Koutris is trading relaxed drug
> enforcement for counterterrorism information from The
> Greek. And, a tip-off from The Greek lead to the huge
> Columbian drug bust by Koutris which had to put him
> in solid with the FBI brass.
>
> All that is on one side of the coin. The real
> question is did he cross a legal line in protecting
> an illegal drug operation even though it yielded
> information that may have thwarted possible future
> terrorist attacks? And did he enter into illegal
> territory again when his information gets Frank
> Sobotka killed?
>
> In a sense, Koutris is like Frank; he has made a deal
> with the devil to further a cause he feels is right.
> Koutris, I think, believes that, as gregstah said, he
> is serving a greater good. It really begs the
> question, do the means justify the ends?
>
> In the final episode we will hear Special Agent
> Fitzhugh explain things to Daniels that will amplify
> the above. Watch and listen carefully to what he has
> to say.
>
> As Season Two draws to an end we can debate the
> morality and ethics of what Koutris did and why he
> did it.
keep in mind that i was only relaying a quote from simon about the character, he is not corrupt, koutris, in dealing with the greek, thinks he is cultivating a source
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 6, 2009 11:12 AM
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>>>Reminder:
>>>This evening we conclude major discussion of S2/E24 and begin analysis, debate and commentary on S2/E25, the final episode of Season Two.
>>>An Episode Summary will be posted prior to discussion.
>>>As always any previous season, episode, or scene is fair game for further discussion all the way back to S1/E1.
>>>I don't know about you, but I am amazed at how fast the first two seasons have gone by. Why not join us here for in-depth coverage of The Wire, and help us wrap up S2 with a bang?
>>>We'd like to know what you think.
>>>The Marathon Thread: All Wire, all the Time!
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Re: Wire marathon: 25 nights together!
Dec 5, 2009 10:10 AM
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> McNulty shouldn't view his time on the boat as lost
> time. After all, this tour of duty provided him with
> the mapping skills and knowledge of tides that
> enabled him to hose Rawls - and, indirectly, Landsman
> - royally, twice!
A good example of turning the proverbial lemon into lemonade, don't you think?
I took more satisfaction in seeing Rawls get it than Jaybird, though. I can't begin to imagine what Landsman's day-to-day must be like trying to bridge the gap between Rawls and the Homicide Unit regulars. What a thankless job.
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